Hardy Succulents - Aizoaceae

Submitted by Mark McD on Fri, 10/29/2010 - 10:50

We already have a category for "Sedum, Sempervivum, Jovibara, and other Crassulaceae", but since we also have things like hardy Delosperma, I'm starting this topic.

I received a plant labeled Stomatium patulum (Tiger Jaws Iceplant), with the added note from the sender "likely misnamed". here's the plant, never flowered all summer, but making pretty good little mounds of opposite "jawed" leaves. Anyone have an idea about what this plant might be? I can't find any certifiable photos of Stomatium patulum even as a starting point. I've never grown Stomatium before, so don't know what to expect, but doing a search reveals some attractive plants.

Picsearch results for Stomatium
http://www.picsearch.com/pictures/plants/garden%20plants/plants%20sk-sy/...

Stomatium mustellinum
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/108386/

PS. In the first photo, the potted plant is Talinum (Phemeranthus) 'Zoe', which might look dead from afar, but it is quite alive and well; just went into dormancy mode for the winter.

Comments


Submitted by Hoy on Fri, 10/29/2010 - 11:49

Have you considered Faucaria, Mark? F. hoolea (dwarf tiger jaw) looks very similar (but it is lots of similar looking species).


Submitted by Mark McD on Fri, 10/29/2010 - 12:00

Hoy wrote:

Have you considered Faucaria, Mark? F. hoolea (dwarf tiger jaw) looks very similar (but it is lots of similar looking species).

I'm not at all familiar with Aizoaceae, so all of these things are totally new to me.  I couldn't anything on F. hoolea, but used IPNI to find names of Faucaria, and there is a Faucaria hooleae... with the extra "e" got some results.  The "mesembs" that I received are all supposed to be hardy ones.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14671025@N05/4727855967/in/photostream/


Submitted by Hoy on Fri, 10/29/2010 - 12:22

Sorry, I lost the last e!
I am not very familiar with those plants either but when I visited S.A. I bought a small flora "Succulents of South Africa" at Kirstenbosch National Botanical Garden.
I know that Silverhill Seeds, South Africa http://www.silverhillseeds.co.za/ sell seeds of hardy succulents.


Submitted by Mark McD on Sun, 10/31/2010 - 08:39

Trond, the link to Silverhill Seeds has me once again spending hours looking through their lists, such an addictive distraction!

New to my garden this summer are forms of an undetermined Delosperma species from Kirstenbosch, representing two collections of apparently the same species.  It still has a few small magenta flowers.  These are growing in the ground at the base of a trough, slightly raised, in a southerly exposure, I hope that they overwinter.


Submitted by Hoy on Sun, 10/31/2010 - 10:19

I bought lots of seed from Silverhill years ago and had some nice and unusual S.A. plants for several years. The last has gone so maybe it is time to some buy seeds again!
Though I still have a yellow Delosperma  from another source. It survived the last hard winter but do not flower, the summers are not hot enough and it is too little sun where it sits. The slugs devour the buds anyway.


Submitted by Mark McD on Tue, 11/02/2010 - 18:24

Here's a tiny one I received labeled Esterhuysenia alpina "compact form", with a note that it is probably a Lampranthus, ex. collected on Matroosberg, West Cape at over 8000 ft, October 2008. The leaf tips are tinged pink, and this first (and last for the season) very late flower bud showing some pink in it, will probably never open because we're suddenly getting temperatures dipping below freezing, mid 20s F.


Submitted by Mark McD on Wed, 11/03/2010 - 16:13

Well, it went down to 24 F (-4 C) last night, but did warm up to about 43 F (6 C) during the day, lo and behold the flower on Esterhuysenia alpina "compact form" (probably a Lampranthus) was starting to open, undeterred by the hard frost.


Submitted by Hoy on Sat, 11/06/2010 - 01:13

Mark, This being a plant from 8000ft I am not surprised that it tolerates frost. All the plants growing at that hights have to be frost insensitive especially during the night, even at summertime. A nice little ice plant.


Submitted by Lori S. on Sat, 11/06/2010 - 11:14

Wow, Esterhuysenia alpina being from 8000' elevation makes me wonder if it could be hardy here?  Is anyone growing this in colder zones?


Submitted by Mark McD on Fri, 11/12/2010 - 21:53

Yet another mesemb that I received is Delosperma 'White Nugget', apparently a sport of D. basuticum.  It didn't flower this summer, but bulked up a little bit.  It is taking on some cold weather foliage coloration right now, I hope it survives the winter.


Submitted by Weiser on Fri, 11/19/2010 - 19:53

Great photos guys!
I grow a few of these myself!
The two smaller ones are D. Basuticum and D. sphalmanthoides. They have never given me any worries and are very reliable.

First three D. sphalmanthoides
Second three D. Basuticum


Submitted by Hoy on Sat, 11/20/2010 - 05:20

Weiser wrote:

Great photos guys!
I grow a few of these myself!
The two smaller ones are D. Basuticum and D. sphalmanthoides. They have never given me any worries and are very reliable.

I can see that!
I have always dreamed of growing a floriferous vygie! Some survive for a couple of years but they never bloom like that!


Submitted by Weiser on Sat, 11/20/2010 - 08:08

Hoy
I loose them too but I usually have two or three growing in differant locations and one will always survive. Delosperma cooperi seeds around quite vigorously. I find it sprouting in some of the most unlikely and inconvenient places. I'd say right in the center of a patch of Opuntia, armed with two inch, sharp spines a little inconvenient.

Since I mentioned Delosperma cooperi here are a couple of shots.


Submitted by RickR on Sat, 11/20/2010 - 08:48

John,
Here in Minnesota, and I would expect for Trond with his wet winters, Delospermas (and like genera) that can take the cold die easily from winter wet.  I don't expect that is a problem with you.

What is it that makes some die while others of the same species live in your climate?


Submitted by Hoy on Sat, 11/20/2010 - 09:40

Yes, Rick is right. It is the wet winters and the sudden change between mild/wet and cold/dry that kills.
Maybe that is changing. The weather forecast says cold, dry and sunny weather the next weeks. Very extraordinary, last year we had only two days with freezing temperatures in November. (Cold, that is -4C/25F; and sunny, that is only a few hours sunshine at this time of the year).


Submitted by Weiser on Sat, 11/20/2010 - 09:51

Rick
I don't know quite what takes some out. We get most of our moisture in the winter with a lot of freeze thaw cycles(almost every day). Average winter temperatures don't vary a lot how ever our snow cover varies widely from year to year. Last year we had a lot that stayed around for a couple of months. The year before what little we had didn't stay for more a couple of days in a row. The planting medium is the same through out the garden. The exposures to sun and wind are the same. So I have no ready answer.
Age of the plants may play into the answer. I have had the older woody/stringy centers of some mats die out but the rooted edges lived on. So if I were to give my best guess I would have to say older plants seem more vulnerable to die off due to moisture around the crown.

By the way, I know how hard it is to keep Delosperma alive in the northern latitudes. I gardened in Bismarck, ND for twenty years before moving to Reno. I do not envy your struggles. I never was able to keep them alive for even one winter. It was very frustrating for about three years then, I decided to just give up and live with the dream of growing them. Little did I know, I would get to fulfill that dream. :) Of course I still can't grow them all.  :(  


Submitted by Mark McD on Sat, 11/20/2010 - 20:53

Weiser wrote:

Great photos guys!
I grow a few of these myself!
The two smaller ones are D. Basuticum and D. sphalmanthoides. They have never given me any worries and are very reliable.

First three D. sphalmanthoides
Second three D. Basuticum

Catching up here, I've been preoccupied.  Oh my, I love these things, John the D. sphalmanthoides is stunning.  Another thing I like about them, they have NO THORNS nor glochids ;D  Well, I sure hope at least a few of these things survive the winter here, and I'm encouraged by the success of a yellow Delosperma in Peter George's garden (in Central, Massachusetts) which is probably D. basuticum.


Submitted by Weiser on Sat, 11/20/2010 - 21:48

Mark
This is an alpine Delosperma that should work for you (maybe??) Delosperma nubigenum.
It has a hard time with my hot, low humidity, summers. It will scorch and look very tattered and abused. I have had them die if they are not given enough water. They always plump back up in the fall when the weather cools down.


Submitted by RickR on Sat, 11/20/2010 - 22:47

I echo John's comments about D. nubigenum.  And for a delosperma, it flowers rather sparsely, or at least I have never gotten it to bloom spectacularly in the 10 years that I have grown it. I still have it, just because I still have it, but I won't cry a tear if it were to disappear in my collection.  You might find this pic of mine interesting in the Wiki image gallery:
http://nargs.org/nargswiki/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=21&offset=20

MUCH better, and equally hardy is D. basuticum.  It grows tighter, is more adaptable to winter moisture, and puts on a great floral show every year.  Prettier flowers, too, in my opinion.

Delosperma basuticum


Submitted by Lori S. on Sat, 11/20/2010 - 23:38

The taxonomy of the hardy yellow-flowered Delosperma is in great disarray...  Here's discussion over at SRGC about the messy state of affairs:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3795.60

McDonough wrote:

I'm encouraged by the success of a yellow Delosperma in Peter George's garden (in Central, Massachusetts) which is probably D. basuticum.

Well, Mark, if it's encouraging to know a yellow Delosperma can be hardy in zones 5/6, then you must be over the moon to hear they can be hardy even in zone 3!  ;D ;D
This one, whatever it really is, has been hardy here since 2004, and another slightly-different yellow one shows signs of hanging in there too.


Submitted by Weiser on Sun, 11/21/2010 - 07:55

Lori
I agree! Disarray is a good description.

Last year I was involved in this same discussion on a cactus and succulent forum. I own two plants that in all respects  are the same species but they came to me labled as separate species. One as congestum the other as basuticum.  I decided to accept the opinion of a very experience collector and  currently use the name D. basuticum (but that could change  :rolleyes:).   


Submitted by Weiser on Sun, 11/21/2010 - 08:25

Do any of you grow Ruschia pulvinaris?
It forms a hard congested mat for me. I have never had it get damaged in my climate. I was wondering how hardy it is in wetter climates.


Submitted by Hoy on Sun, 11/21/2010 - 09:47

Weiser wrote:

Do any of you grow Ruschia pulvinaris?
It forms a hard congested mat for me. I have never had it get damaged in my climate. I was wondering how hardy it is in wetter climates.

I can't help you there. But it looks like a plant worth trying!
I have a place (at my summerhouse) where the climate is drier, the summers are warmer and the winters are but a little colder. All your colorful pictures have convinced me that I have to try many more of these plants!


Submitted by Mark McD on Sun, 11/21/2010 - 09:53

Weiser wrote:

Lori
I agree! Disarray is a good description.

Last year I was involved in this same discussion on a cactus and succulent forum. I own two plants that in all respects  are the same species but they came to me labled as separate species. One as congestum the other as basuticum.  I decided to accept the opinion of a very experience collector and  currently use the name D. basuticum (but that could change  :rolleyes:).   

Here's another link on the same multi-page SRGC thread, member Iann comments on congestum, basuticum, & nubigenum:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3795.msg120597#msg120597

John, the Ruschia looks great too.  Cold has finally hit here, still below freezing as I write this at noontime, we shall see what happens this winter.


Submitted by Boland on Sun, 11/21/2010 - 13:52

What gorgeous plants!  D. basuticum barely survives here outside but does fine in our alpine house where excess winter moisture can be minimized.  I grow several other Delosperma but keep them in my basement window over the winter.

I saw loads of Aizoaceae in South Africa but most were probably not hardy forms.  I didn't see any blooming in the Drakensberg but then I was not there at the peak blooming season.  I did see lots of blooming Helichrysum on the other hand.


Submitted by Peter George on Sun, 11/21/2010 - 20:44

I've had D. basuticum for 15 years, and it spreads around a bit each year, and it's seeded itself as well. I've grown D. cooperi for 5 years, and then it was gone after a miserable winter with at least two major thaws accompanied by rain and followed by sub-zero temps. That same year I lost R. pulvinaris as well.

For the past two years I've overwintered a Delosperma from Wrightman's he calls D. 'wolfgang.'  It's tiny and has a very small white flower, which is not really even noticeable in the open garden, but which would be quite at home in a trough.

A neighbor, who has a heated greenhouse, grows several mesembs in the areas around the greenhouse, and they grow beautifully and flower for weeks. I've tried a couple in my sunniest spots, but so far they've failed to make it over the winter. For me, the trick would be to get a nice sunny spot next to my foundation, with perfect drainage. I'll give it a shot this next spring and see if I can expand my Delosperma horizons.

The pictures were taken by Mark McDonough this past spring, and are also found in his 'Garden Visits' thread. The Delosperma was labeled incorrectly around 1998 when I first obtained this particular plant.


Submitted by Weiser on Thu, 11/25/2010 - 08:54

Delosperma cooperi hybrid ''Kelaidis" (aka "Mesa Verde"). One of my favorites!


Submitted by Mark McD on Thu, 11/25/2010 - 19:11

Weiser wrote:

Delosperma cooperi hybrid ''Kelaidis" (aka "Mesa Verde"). One of my favorites!

John, these things are fantastic, that's a beautiful and pleasing pink and I MUST GET IT.  Panayoti, I don't have this one, and it's your namesake!  I believe many of these hardy Delosperma are being introduced by Plant Select.

Delosperma 'Kelaidis' - Mesa Verde ® Ice Plant, Plant Select
http://www.plantselect.org/plant_details.php?plant_name=Delosperma+%27Ke...

Or go to: http://www.plantselect.org/search_photo.php > click Plant Info/Photo Search > type in Delosperma, there are a number of introductions listed, I really like the red and magenta Delosperma dyeri 'Psdold', Red Mountain ® Ice Plant. 
http://www.plantselect.org/plant_details.php?plant_name=Delosperma+dyeri...

This last one looks similar in color to a new species that is yet to be introduced, and without a name currently; here are two photos from Panayoti of this new species that he allowed me to post:


Submitted by Weiser on Thu, 11/25/2010 - 20:21

Mark I like the new red one from Panayoti. It has a lot more hot pink in the center. Nice!

You mentioned Delosperma dyeri 'Psdold', "Red Mountain" I guess I never knew it's original name. All I've ever heard it called is "Red Mountain" . I will have to add that to my labels.

Any way here is "Red Mountain" from my garden for comparison.


Submitted by Mark McD on Thu, 11/25/2010 - 20:28

Wow, these plants "sing" to me... they have those gorgeous cacti-like flowers, but none of the stinkin spines! ;D  A local nursery I went to this spring (just to browse) had about 8 different alluring varieties of Delosperma, prices not that bad, but as I'm in a no-buy-mode (unemployed) I did not buy any of them, but I find it hopeful that these things are showing up here in local nurseries.  I envision great swathes of Ice Plants taming broad portions of my hot sunny slopes in the yard.  Red Mountain is outstanding.

PS: these darned Trademark names that trump actual cultivar names drive me crazy; hard enough to get the botanical name and a cultivar name correct (let alone "common names"), now we must also deal with trademark names, as if every cultivar now has two different cultivar names, one the trademak name, the other the real yet subservient cultivar name.  I'll stop here before going into a tirade.


Submitted by Hoy on Fri, 11/26/2010 - 01:24

Weiser wrote:

Here are a few cati-like flowers. ;D

Impressive! And you grow all in your garden?


Submitted by RickR on Fri, 11/26/2010 - 18:12

Is this a test, that you didn't name the photo subjects, John?

My, they are scrumptious!


Submitted by Weiser on Fri, 11/26/2010 - 20:10

Mark said ""cacti like flowers" I just couldn't resist. "I  bad!" :-[
Rick and Hoy
Yes I grow them all and many more. No it is not a test! ;)
Just click on my flikr link at the bottom of my posts. Then click on the "Cactaceae - Cactus Family" in the collections section, to see what I grow.


Submitted by Hoy on Sat, 11/27/2010 - 05:04

John, if I ever should find the way to your part of the world, do you welcome garden visitors?


Submitted by Weiser on Sat, 11/27/2010 - 09:11

Yes definitely.  ;D  I would be disappointed if you came this way and didn't stop by.
I even have a bed available and all the comforts of home.

My garden is open to anyone traveling through, and if you are staying in the area for a few days a few hikes into the wilds is not out of the question.


Submitted by Hoy on Sat, 11/27/2010 - 10:30

Weiser wrote:

Yes definitely.  ;D   I would be disappointed if you came this way and didn't stop by.
I even have a bed available and all the comforts of home.

My garden is open to anyone traveling through, and if you are staying in the area for a few days a few hikes into the wilds is not out of the question.

Thanks! ;D ;D 8)


Submitted by Mark McD on Wed, 12/08/2010 - 18:15

A person from the Czech Republic emailed me with a link to their web site with Delosperma photos.  The site is in Czeck language, but you can use the 2nd link down on the left to find Delosperma.  Or, view the site using Google Translate.
http://delosperma.webnode.cz/delospermy/


Submitted by Mark McD on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 22:17

Weiser wrote:

Mark
I enjoyed looking at your link.

Have you seen Martin Tversted's photo sight?
http://public.fotki.com/Northern-Nursery/

Thought I'd post a few shots of Stomatium mustillnum. This is a night bloomer and very hardy for me.

Thanks John.  Good link.  The Stomatium mustillnum looks awesome; I hope that my Stomatium proves equally hardy.  We're getting pretty cold here; 10 F this morning, and a high of 22 F, and no snow so far.  My Stomatium looks fine, but typically it is our late winter/early spring weather that kills plants, with alternating freezing/thawing and excessive winter/spring rains that do plants in. Stomatium in bloom has a most distinctive look over Delosperma.  I foresee another excessive-compulsive interest coming on ;D


Submitted by RickR on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 19:33

Oh my, I've been growing a Delosperma sp. that is the source of a mind altering drug (and I don't think it's a good kind)!  I received seed from someone because a caudiciform delosperma intrigued me.  It's ridiculously easy to grow, but the flowers are worth nothing.  It blooms all summer, and I had been checking off and on, looking for a flower that might make a good photo, and never came across one. (!)

Ridiculously easy to germinate, too.  Even the seed pod is more interesting than the flower, and that's not saying much.  (in a 2.25 inch spuare pot)

Delosperma bosserianum


Submitted by Mark McD on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 20:11

The baby seedlings are so cute, more than I can say for the flowers ;)  Is this one hardy, or can I assume it is more of a houseplant sort of thing, like many caudiciforms are.


Submitted by RickR on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 21:29

Yes, Delosperma bosserianum is a houseplant that summers outside for me.  I kinda tested its frost hardiness and these were the results:

1. Plants were expose one night to 23F(row 1), 32F(row 2) and never exposed to freezing(row 3).  Pic taken five days after.
2. About four weeks after exposure, and growing inside the house.  The middle three rows are all the "32F" exposed plants.

As you might expect, plants that were nipped by the frost, grew back more bushy.  They didn't seem to skip a beat from the cold temps, and in fact rebounded very quickly.

(edited for correct bosserianum spelling)


Submitted by Weiser on Sun, 12/12/2010 - 08:26

RickR wrote:

Oh my, I've been growing a Delosperma sp. that is the source of a mind altering drug (and I don't think it's a good kind)!  

There are quite a few psychotropic plants that we grow and don't know about. I can point to four off the top of my head that grow in my garden. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psychedelic_plants
What bugs me is how the internet search engines first direct you to sights that promote their use. Especially when you do a general search for a Genus of plants. The prime example is to use the word "Salvia" when searching. I find it very frustrating!


Submitted by Mark McD on Sun, 12/12/2010 - 09:10

Weiser wrote:

RickR wrote:

Oh my, I've been growing a Delosperma sp. that is the source of a mind altering drug (and I don't think it's a good kind)! 

There are quite a few psychotropic plants that we grow and don't know about. I can point to four off the top of my head that grow in my garden. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psychedelic_plants
What bugs me is how the internet search engines first direct you to sights that promote their use. Especially when you do a general search for a Genus of plants. The prime example is to use the word "Salvia" when searching. I find it very frustrating!

Fascinating link!  I knew of a few plants in this category but had no idea about such a wide range of plants (I think I'll bookmark this one :P). Funny what you say about searching Salvia, in a similar situation during my obsessive Epimedium research, was trying to find information in E. sagittatum and related species (for strictly botanical/taxonomic purposes), and one gets a million hits about the aphrodisiac usage of E. sagittatum, almost to the exclusion of finding anything else about the plant.


Submitted by Mark McD on Sun, 12/12/2010 - 09:18

RickR wrote:

Yes, Delosperma bosseranum is a houseplant that summers outside for me.  I kinda tested its frost hardiness and these were the results:

1. Plants were expose one night to 23F(row 1), 32F(row 2) and never exposed to freezing(row 3).  Pic taken five days after.
2. About four weeks after exposure, and growing inside the house.  The middle three rows are all the "32F" exposed plants.

As you might expect, plants that were nipped by the frost, grew back more bushy.  They didn't seem to skip a beat from the cold temps, and in fact rebounded very quickly.

Rick, do you bring all these plants to plant sales, you are a propagation-meister!  Interesting experiment.  I have an idea about how those plants might do if left for several weeks of freezing temps ;)  I've been purposely not looking at my Delosperma plantings, we had 4 days with night temps down to as low as 10 F and daytime temps only reaching low or mid 20s, but it was dry and sunny; freezing rain this morning, and the week projected to be a snowy/icy/rainy mix... seems winter finally arrived in New England.  I did clean off all the fallen leaves on these little succulents, fearing that heavy soggy leaves would be a threat to them.


Submitted by RickR on Sun, 12/12/2010 - 20:34

Weiser wrote:

There are quite a few psychotropic plants that we grow and don't know about. I can point to four off the top of my head that grow in my garden.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psychedelic_plants
What bugs me is how the internet search engines first direct you to sights that promote their use. Especially when you do a general search for a Genus of plants. The prime example is to use the word "Salvia" when searching. I find it very frustrating!

Of course, that is how I found out about D. bosserianum: I stumble upon it googling.  At the time, I did see that others of the genus also contained psychedelics .  It's interesting that the wiki page does not list bosserianum.  Maybe because there is no real scientific backing (?)

(edited for correct bosserianum spelling)


Submitted by RickR on Sun, 12/12/2010 - 20:40

McDonough wrote:

Rick, do you bring all these plants to plant sales, you are a propagation-meister!  

Regarding my addiction to propagation, our Minnesota Chapter NARGS plant sale and I have a symbiotic relationship.  I am the biggest single donor, and our Chapter has incorporated as a non-profit organization according to state and federal guidelines.  My donations are a significant tax break for me.  Besides, I'd hate to see the extras just get thrown away.

Re: Delosperma bosserianum in particular: the seed was six years old, and they were so tiny that I wondered about their viability.  Hence, so many seedlings in that one pot.  I must have thrown away half of them as it was...

I haven't sold any of them, as I am not done testing and futsing with them. I am hoping to be able to raise them out of the soil as is done with many other caudiciforms, to expose the caudex.   Anyway, for the last few years I have instigated a "no houseplants" rule for our sales.  They never sell, donors bring the ugliest specimens (in general), and I am left with have to dispose of them at the end of the sale.

(edited for correct bosserianum spelling)


Submitted by Mark McD on Sun, 12/12/2010 - 20:48

I just searched for that Delosperma on IPNI (http://www.ipni.org/) searching on Delosperma b* and I see a spelling difference.  That might affect any google searches on the name.  IPNI is one of my favorite bookmarks :D
Delosperma bosserianum Marais.

We just tried posting at nearly the same time!  So, Delosperma maintain seed viability for a long time, good to know.  With all of our pouring rain after a week of deep freeze, today I did check into the Delospermas in my beds and troughs, and they all look fine and the foliage is turgid... of course it is only December.

Keep "futsing" with your plants and report the results here, I think everyone likes those sorts of experiments and documentation!  I often consider my garden a "science lab" (perhaps an excuse to cover for the fact it is not the most beautiful nor developed garden around), but I do see it that way, and it suits me just fine.


Submitted by VBouffard on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 09:42

Hi Mark - going back to your original post - this is probably useless information, but your plant looks exactly like my seedlings of Faucaria tigrina looked.  Now that they're bigger, the leaves are longer and the plants look less chunky.  So I would say you don't have this faucaria, but maybe it's something close.  I'm not familiar with the faucaria the other poster mentioned.

all the best,
Vivien Bouffard


Submitted by Mark McD on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 19:24

Hi Vivien,

Welcome to the NARGS Forum!
  Where abouts are you gardening, are any of these hardy succulents hardy for you?  I've not heard of Faucaria tigrina, but I'll look it up; the species name intrigues me because the common name on my plant is "tiger jaws", and "tigrinum" means tiger-like (usually in reference to spotting).

Who knows what my plant really is, a Faucaria or a Stomatium, these little succulent plants are all very new to me, but what I'm seeing from photos posted by others with more experience than myself, I like what I see! :D  If the plant survives the winter and flowers in 2011, then I'll have a better set of details with which to find an identity of this chubby little succulent.  If my plant looks anything as pretty as John Weiser's Stomatium mustillnum, I would be more than happy.


Submitted by Mark McD on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 19:48

Follow-up: I have googled Faucaria tigrina, and I agree that is not a match for my plant, the teeth on that species are much too pronounced to be a match.


Submitted by Weiser on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 19:55

Vivian
Welcome to the forum it was good to hear from you. I would love to hear about any other aizoaceae you grow and any cultural information you have on them.


Submitted by RickR on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 21:26

Mark, an interestining conundrum regarding the epithet bosserianum:  more than one site claim their information source as the IPNI, yet list it as bosseranum -without the "i" !!!

I think you're right though, D. bosserianum must be correct.  If anyone has access to The Kew Bulletin. 33(3): 521 (1979), we would know for sure as that is the first publishing, I assume.  I changed my previous posts to reflect the correct spelling.


Submitted by VBouffard on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 08:19

I don't have too much experience with these plants.  I just like growing various things from seed so I can see what they do right from the beginning.  It's really fun to see how plants like faucaria, aloe, and agave develop.  The seed for the Faucaria came from JL Hudson; I shouldn't think they would be anywhere near hardy here in Norwood, MA.  I haven't ordered from Silverhill, but one of these days will place an order with Mesa Garden in NM.  My friend Art Scarpa, who founded the Cacti & Succulent Society in MA, tells me that Silverhill gets a lot of their seed from Mesa!  Their prices are low, their listings extensive, and no phytosanitary stuff to pay for!

All I have in the way of delosperma is the most ordinary stuff, which winters over pretty well, but is a bit shy in the blooming department.  Probably wants more sun, which is in short supply at my house.

Vivien


Submitted by Mark McD on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 10:40

Vivien, I used to live in the same town as you, near the Walpole line, but now located northwest of Boston near the New Hampshire line.  If any of the Delosperma that I received this year make it through winter, I'll certainly post here.  And on another encouraging note, this spring and summer I found that a local nursery in Groton, one that is supplied by wholesaler Sunny Border with perennials and rock garden type plants, had a surprisingly good offering of Delosperma and other "hardy succulents". So maybe these plants are becoming increasingly available and can be tried out to see how they manage our New England winters (and early spring).


Submitted by Kelaidis on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 18:09

Great to see all those delos in your garden Mark!

I have Ebracteola wilmaniae opening its flowers on warmish days.

I am attaching two pix of the two best pink flowered delos (in my opinion), both of which are very tough. The first is Delo. 'Lesotho Pink' introduced by David Salman, I believe from seed he got from Silverhill. It has gorgeous winter foliage color (a deep purple) and has never shown signs of cold damage here.

The second is 'Tiffendell' collected by my colleage Dan Johnson, who has a sharp eye. It gets enormous here (over a yard across) and likewise never has cold damage.


Submitted by Hoy on Sat, 12/18/2010 - 06:48

Although the winters here perhaps are milder than yours, you have more sun and warmer summers and more sun in the fall. I think the plants need sun to harden off in the fall.


Submitted by Weiser on Thu, 12/23/2010 - 12:11

Kelaidis wrote:

The second is 'Tiffendell' collected by my colleague Dan Johnson, who has a sharp eye. It gets enormous here (over a yard across) and likewise never has cold damage.

Love to have this one but I can not seem to find a commercial source. It looks like a real show stopper! Maybe in a year or two it will be making the rounds at the nurseries.

PK  have you ever compiled a list of the hardy Aizoaceae you grow in your garden? I for one would be very interested!

Aloinopsis spathulata is a little gem I have had moderate luck with. It will do great for two of three years until I hit a snowy winter with a lot of freeze thaw cycles then it rots off. I keep trying it in increasingly, sharply drained substraits in the hope of hitting the perfect combination.


Submitted by Mark McD on Sat, 12/25/2010 - 19:39

Weiser wrote:

Aloinopsis spathulata is a little gem I have had moderate luck with. It will do great for two of three years until I hit a snowy winter with a lot of freeze thaw cycles then it rots off. I keep trying it in increasingly, sharply drained substraits in the hope of hitting the perfect combination.

John, that's a beauty.  The flowers of this genus seem distinct in the way thy form a low central cone.  Seeing this one had me googling and losing a couple hours of viewing more succulent eye-candy, my goodness there are some awesome dwarf succulents.  I'm not sure how many Aloinopsis are hardy ones, but there seem to be a good number of species and cultivars.  Here's some links that caught my attention:

The Tucson-Gardener.com has lots of nice galleries, with an emphasis on more tender cacti and succulent species.
Flower gallery:
http://www.tucson-gardener.com/graphics/Galleries/Flowers/Flowers.html
Spination Gallery
http://tucson-gardener.com/graphics/Galleries/Photo%20Galleries.html
Collection:
http://www.tucson-gardener.com/Collection.html

Some Aloinopsis and Aloinanthus
========================
Aloinopsis Karoo Red Mix hybrid
http://blog.highcountrygardens.com/wp-content/uploads/Aloinopsis-Karoo-R...

Lots of good stuff at Sunscapes:
http://www.sunscapes.net/Pages/Catalog.htm

Two Aloinopsis at Sunscapes, A. spathulata, and check out the hybrid one named 'Thai Dyed':
http://www.sunscapes.net/Pages/Catalog.htm
http://www.sunscapes.net/images/A.%20spathulata%2032%25%203.0.JPG
http://www.sunscapes.net/images/Titanopsis%20x%20%27Thai%20Dyed%27%2032%...

And then check out the Aloinanthus (hybrids between Aloinopsis and Nanathus; superb!)
These are listed as "not reliably hardy here in zone 5 but will survive some winters in warm microclimates"
A. x ’High Noon’
http://www.sunscapes.net/images/Aloinopsis%20X-1%20%27High%20Noon%27%20%...

A. x 'Morning Sky'
http://www.sunscapes.net/images/Aloinopsis%20x%20%27Morning%20Sky%27%203...

A. x 'Last Light'
http://www.sunscapes.net/images/Aloinopsis%20x%20%27Last%20Light%27%203....

A. x 'Opera Mauve'
http://www.sunscapes.net/images/Aloinopsis%20x%20%27Opera%20Mauve%27.JPG

A. x 'Sunscapes Pink'
http://www.sunscapes.net/images/Aloinopsis%20x%20%27Sunscapes%20Pink%27%...

A. x 'Yellow Eye'
http://www.sunscapes.net/images/Aloinopsis%20x%20%20%27Yellow%20Eye%27%2...


Submitted by Weiser on Sun, 01/09/2011 - 20:31

Thought I'd revive this topic with a few pictures of another hardy Aizoaceae.

These shots are of Chasmatope musculinum. I have had this plant for five years and it has proven to be hardy for me. It is a woody slow creeper and cuttings are easy as it likes to root as it expands in size. As you can see it blooms in early spring usually starting from mid May - late May for me. 


Submitted by Mark McD on Tue, 03/08/2011 - 16:32

Just catching up with this, and upon reawakening the topic, John somehow I missed commenting on your photos of Chasmatope musculinum.  I love learning about all of these hardy succulents, inspired by each new species and cultivar I learn about.  This one sure is unique, reminiscent of a dandelion genetically slammed together with a succulent, a very cool plant!

After being under 5-6 feet of snow, the troughs on the sunny south side of a garden shed next to my driveway, sufficiently warm and sunny in this microclimate to melt away the snow, suddenly the troughs are exposed and visible again.  Actually, this is the time to worry, because it is usually the wild swings in temperature and moisture in spring that does the most damage. 

In the photo you can see a couple Delosperma plants, the one on the lower is the new species with orange-hot-pink-red flowers;
see: http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=468.msg5118#msg5118    Panayoti...it's looking fine, firm and very much alive.  Behind it is a smaller brownish-leaf plant of 'White Nugget'.  On the left is the winter red-purple leaf color on Penstemon procerus var. formosus, and a microphlox cultivar behind it.


Submitted by Hoy on Wed, 03/09/2011 - 12:31

Weiser wrote:

Thought I'd revive this topic with a few pictures of another hardy Aizoaceae.

These shots are of Chasmatope musculinum. I have had this plant for five years and it has proven to be hardy for me. It is a woody slow creeper and cuttings are easy as it likes to root as it expands in size. As you can see it blooms in early spring usually starting from mid May - late May for me.  

What's hardy for you isn't for me, I'll bet! Although it is less cold here than many other places it is too wet and too little Sunshine!
But I will try more Aizoaceae to if I can find any hardy enough!

McDonough wrote:

Just catching up with this, and upon reawakening the topic, John somehow I missed commenting on your photos of Chasmatope musculinum.  I love learning about all of these hardy succulents, inspired by each new species and cultivar I learn about.  This one sure is unique, reminiscent of a dandelion genetically slammed together with a succulent, a very cool plant!

After being under 5-6 feet of snow, the troughs on the sunny south side of a garden shed next to my driveway, sufficiently warm and sunny in this microclimate to melt away the snow, suddenly the troughs are exposed and visible again.  Actually, this is the time to worry, because it is usually the wild swings in temperature and moisture in spring that does the most damage.  

Although you had and still have more snow than I you are catching up Mark! That's the advantage of living far south ;)


Submitted by Mark McD on Wed, 03/09/2011 - 12:46

Hoy wrote:

Although you had and still have more snow than I you are catching up Mark! That's the advantage of living far south ;)

Haha, "living far south" ;D
We had a brief break from frigid temperatures, but its back to being frigid again with snow predicted tonight.


Submitted by cohan on Wed, 03/09/2011 - 18:03

Hoy wrote:

:o You are still a southerner to me!

To me too! You're all warm zone gardeners to me ;) Even Lori  ;D

Trond, the same name I gave you, Martin, who John mentioined in this thread, has grown a lot of mesembs in Denmark, in various degrees of cover etc.. still an excellent source for info for you :)


Submitted by Hoy on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 01:25

cohan wrote:

Hoy wrote:

:o You are still a southerner to me!

To me too! You're all warm zone gardeners to me ;) Even Lori  ;D

Trond, the same name I gave you, Martin, who John mentioined in this thread, has grown a lot of mesembs in Denmark, in various degrees of cover etc.. still an excellent source for info for you :)

:) ;) ;D


Submitted by Boland on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 04:02

I'm a southerner (from a Canadian perspective) living in a northern climate (more like Tronds).  I managed to dig my way into my cold frame and several Delosperma seemed to have survived.  They can never make it outdoors here with the exception of D. basuticum.  I am amazed that my Stomatium (species unknown) survived!  I hope it blooms this year so I can get an ID.


Submitted by Mark McD on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 22:29

Speaking of Stomatium, I'm pleased that my Stomatium species (received as S. patulum) is looking healthy and lively even after a mountain of snow melted away, and two clumps were then subjected to snowless deep freezes, rain, more snow, deep freezes again, and sun today.  I might be speaking too early, but the plant seems indifferent to what winter throws at it so far.


Submitted by cohan on Wed, 03/16/2011 - 00:32

McDonough wrote:

Speaking of Stomatium, I'm pleased that my Stomatium species (received as S. patulum) is looking healthy and lively even after a mountain of snow melted away, and two clumps were then subjected to snowless deep freezes, rain, more snow, deep freezes again, and sun today.  I might be speaking too early, but the plant seems indifferent to what winter throws at it so far.

Great news! Its a really nice plant, great leaves..


Submitted by Boland on Sat, 03/19/2011 - 06:46

Mark your Stomantium looks just like mine...I may have an ID!  And if patula survived for you, that increases the chances that I also have patula since we have similar hardiness zones.  I have 4 plants so I will plant one in my best-drained site and see what happens.


Submitted by Mark McD on Sun, 03/20/2011 - 18:57

Todd wrote:

Mark your Stomantium looks just like mine...I may have an ID!  And if patula survived for you, that increases the chances that I also have patula since we have similar hardiness zones.  I have 4 plants so I will plant one in my best-drained site and see what happens.

Excellent, we'll have to compare photos when (if) they flower, would like to have an ID on it.  It is continuing to color up, showing strong pinkish leaf coloration.  Dropped back down to 25 F (-4 C) but this one seems weather resistant so far.


Submitted by Kelaidis on Sun, 03/27/2011 - 20:16

Great to see your mesembs doing so well, Mark. And as for your inquiry, John, we have had over 100 taxa of mesembs make it through at least one winter: most of them are marked 17 or 18 on Mesa Gardens list (where many originated). There will surely be several hundred. I have compiled these in ab ook that should have been published this year, but I dragged my feet!

Sorry I have been absent: too much happening at work and in the garden!


Submitted by Weiser on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 22:21

Thought you guys and gals would like to see my latest photos of Delosperma sphalmanthoides. It is in full bloom right now.


Submitted by Martin Tversted on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 00:20

HEre Delosperma sphalmanthoides is also flowering. Lots of activities with the hardy mesembs right now. The Neohenricia and Neohenricia x Mossia plants have started growing and so all Delos. First Bergeranthus were in flower yesterday. New forms of Delos will soon flower and old friends will soon forfill my expectations from viewing pictures all winter. Allways interesting to get new locality plants even without species names. Must key them out (at some point I think all delo names sould be reset and start all over again with naming them!)
There has been some fantastic pictures in the this thread. Many plants I could only dream on having here.
Have any of you tried Mestoklema? I have had tuberosum surviving 4 years in the unheated greenhouse being solid frozen for months at a time and never freezing back. Now I have uprooted them and 60-70 cm of taproot and planted them in a large pot, maybe that will kill them? At least I have plenty of seeds.

Martin


Submitted by RickR on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 10:43

John, that Delosperma sphalmanthoides is spectacular! 

The flowers seem much larger than other delospermas, or is it just that the foliage is smaller?


Submitted by Weiser on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 11:58

RickR wrote:

John, that Delosperma sphalmanthoides is spectacular! 

The flowers seem much larger than other Delospermas, or is it just that the foliage is smaller?

It's all smaller!! This is a tiny Delosperma perfect for a trough. The whole mat meassures about six inches across. The leaves are gray/green, half an inch long all pointing toward the sky. The flowers are half an inch maybe, a little smaller than a dime. It only puts out a flush of bloom in early spring.
Just an example of macro and zoom capabilities. Just giving you the ant's eye view!! ;)


Submitted by Mark McD on Sat, 05/14/2011 - 22:06

My Stomatium ?patulum mustillinum is blooming.  I was seeing little yellow buds, but they never seemed to open.  Lo and behold, this is a night blooming plant!  Is this typical for Stomatium?  It is one of the few of the "hardy mesembs" and related Aizoaceae to actually overwinter, and this one came through just fine.

Note: these photos taken with my new HTC Thunderbolt 4G Droid phone, most all photos I've tried taken with it so far, are totally blurred; I'll have to play around with the settings.


Submitted by Weiser on Sun, 05/15/2011 - 06:34

McDonough wrote:

My Stomatium ?patulum is blooming.  I was seeing little yellow buds, but they never seemed to open.  Lo and behold, this is a night blooming plant! 

Mark
Forgive me while I chuckle.  ;) I made the same mistake six years ago.  :rolleyes:
Glad to see it doing well for you. Try this name for it Stomatium mustillnum. I find it to be very hardy and have never had dieback or damage on mine. I get two flushes of bloom one in the spring and another in the fall after the heat of summer passes. It is definitely a keeper!!  :)


Submitted by Mark McD on Sun, 05/15/2011 - 18:43

Weiser wrote:

McDonough wrote:

My Stomatium ?patulum is blooming.  I was seeing little yellow buds, but they never seemed to open.  Lo and behold, this is a night blooming plant! 

Mark
Forgive me while I chuckle.  ;) I made the same mistake six years ago.  :rolleyes:
Glad to see it doing well for you. Try this name for it Stomatium mustillnum. I find it to be very hardy and have never had dieback or damage on mine. I get two flushes of bloom one in the spring and another in the fall after the heat of summer passes. It is definitely a keeper!!  :)

Thanks John, glad to know it's real name... I had received it as S. patulum with a note from the sender saying it probably wasn't that species.  Here are some links.  The flowers are described as deliciously fragrant, but I haven't gone out with a flashlight to check.

Stomatium mustillinum
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/108386/

Stomatium mustillinum available at High Country Gardens along with several more Zone 5 rated hardy ice plants, all of which look very tempting.
http://www.highcountrygardens.com/catalog/product/92971/


Submitted by Mark McD on Tue, 06/07/2011 - 19:53

Another new one blooming for me, was received in 2010 as Delosperma 'Tiffindell'.  Googling, I see one named 'Tiffindell Magenta'.  Are there actually two different cultivars; 'Tiffindell' and 'Tiffindell Magenta'?  Anyone know anything about this selection, it's a real beauty.  My plant does not look like 'Tiffindell Magenta'; the flowers here are a lighter pink with pale eye, much prettier than the "magenta" form.


Submitted by Kelaidis on Sat, 08/20/2011 - 16:46

Can't believe no one commented on your fabulous delo pic: your Tiffendell comes from the one on my earlier posting. I believe it traces to a collection by Dan Johnson at the Tiffendell resort. I suspect Tiffendell Magenta could be a closely related plant (I think they are in the lavisiae complex), many people have been up there...

Thrilled to see them doing well and that your Stomatium is blooming!


Submitted by RickR on Sat, 08/20/2011 - 18:37

Somehow I missed your last posts, Mark. 

They are indeed an enviable bunch!  The color on the Delo is most intoxicating.


Submitted by Kelaidis on Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:04

Pretty silent on the mesemb front: thought this would be worth your checking out. I think I've had it three winters now. David Salman (High Country Gardens) gave it to me as a host gift when he stayed with me  few years ago. The flowers are well over 2" across btw...

Last year it started blooming in November. No sign of blooms yet. It opens fresh flowers all winter, with the big show in March and April. I think it is one of the most dazzling rock garden plants in my garden (and I may have over 1000 taxa nearby). Only source right now is Mesa Gardens...


Submitted by Mark McD on Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:00

Another nice one PK, there seems no end to these little succulent beauties (no spines either ;)).  I'm inspired by seeing these, and the limited results I had growing these this year from some of your plants. 

I saw your post of 10 photos on SRGC, and once again I'm blown away by the sheer proliferation of bloom on the extensive mats in hot colors; Delosperma dyeri is to "die for", love those orange hot-pink-centered silken blooms.  For those who haven't seen these photos, you must follow this link on the SRGC forum (scroll down a little bit... the 10 photos are uploaded in two messages).
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3795.msg221290#msg221290

Now I regret not picking up more of these Delospermas when opportunities arose.  This past late August 2011, on the way back back to the office from a customer onsite consultation job, my travels took me past a popular garden center in Massachusetts called Mahonies.  I stopped by, took a look around the left-over perennials (home gardener's are a fickle crown, only buying perennials in May/June when most are in bloom), there were still much to entice.  We're in a new era of horticultural access, with all kinds of wonderful plants making their way into mainstream availability... there were many treasures sitting there unnoticed.  I picked up Vernonia lettermannii (they had 2 forms no less, of this most excellent smaller Ironweed), Kirengoshoma koreana (which I featured on this forum in the Miscellaneous Woodlanders topic; http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=593.msg11380#msg11380), and several other goodies.

I had to put the brakes on in a big way, could've easily spent a couple hundred dollars, but still on financial recovery after 1-1/2 years unemployment, a new job with significant pay cut, and the double-whammy of the year where both my daughters are in college, I had to exercise tremendous restraint.  One item passed up was Delosperma Mesa Verde® (aka D. 'Kelaidis'; the name rings a bell ;)), being grown just like any perennial or bedding chrysanthemum.  The large pots filled to the brim, were only ~$10.00 each, but I already surpassed my limit, and figured if the plant has become so mainstream, I'll get it next year.  PLANTS!, such a cursed addiction!

   

Mesa Verde® Ice Plant, Delosperma 'Kelaidis' P.P.# 13876
http://www.monrovia.com/plant-catalog/plants/2643/mesa-verde-ice-plant.php


Submitted by penstemon on Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:39

Quote:

PLANTS!, such a cursed addiction!   

That's what the voles say, here.

Bob


Submitted by Kelaidis on Wed, 11/30/2011 - 22:41

I wish I'd been there to pick up a few Vernonias: I saw this in Kansas this year (at the Dyck arboretum) and fell in love with it. Came home and there were huge clumps at Kendrick Lake and Mike Kintgen's garden. Grrrrrrrrr. I hate not being the first to grow a plant in Colorado!

Just remind me, Mark, next May or June and I will load you up with delos, Mark!


Submitted by penstemon on Thu, 12/01/2011 - 12:47

Voles find mesembs to be irresistible treats. Squirrels too, but voles are faster out of the gate.
As I watched my collection of Delosperma dyeri clones being eaten to the ground (at night, of course), it occurred to me that maybe a vole-ridden garden wasn't the best place for them, so I moved the survivors next door, where they were spectacular last year.
It's too out in the open for voles to tread safely.

Bob


Submitted by Mark McD on Tue, 05/08/2012 - 21:20

Flowering for weeks, but only at night, is Stomatium mustillinum, a very hardy night-blooming succulent.


Submitted by Hoy on Wed, 05/09/2012 - 14:20

Very attractive plants, Mark and Rick! Now I wonder whether my plants at my summerhouse have started flowering in the cool weather.