Lilies, anyone?

When does the clump of formosanum flower?

Lilium formosanum var. pricei blooms in mid July for me.  Considerably earlier than the species type.

The many times I've tried this one it's proven to be premonocarpic; i.e., it dies before it gets a  chance to flower  ;)

RickR wrote:

Lilium formosanum var. pricei blooms in mid July for me.  Considerably earlier than the species type.

Just checked my past photos, typically it blooms in early July here, but last year with an unusually early spring, it bloomed late June.  Here's a photo taken 06-26-2011.  Stephen, my guess is you don't get much seed on your premonocarpic form ;)

Lilium rosthornii is closely related to Lilium henryi.  The type of clone I have is somewhat common, where the petal edges are whitish, and the young buds are white before turning orange and then opening.  In the photo the white bud is actually the youngest and smallest, but appears larger because of its proximity to the camera lens.  The bicolor effect of buds and flowers is very pleasing.

This species is where the "blackheart" characteristic of aurelian hybrid lilies originate.  Mine, however, has a green heart:

Rick, my plants are still in bud! It is one of the latest lilies to flower for me.

I just dug Lilium szovitsianum, and unlike most species lilies, these bulbs are big!  The photo shows two bulbs from the one plant, grown from a two year old,  dinky seedling I bought in 2004.  The lily had been sending up two shoots for several years.  I was pleased to find that many new roots had initiated at the base of the bulbs, and are about a centimeter long.

It was surprising that the top of the bulb was only about 3cm below the surface.  Is this normal?  Perhaps it is because it grows in rich clay soil, rather than sandy soil?

Any thoughts are appreciated...

Lilium szovitsianum bulbs

Regarding the depth in the soil of the L. szovitsianum bulb, I've been asking around and have found from a couple experienced growers that they are usually very deeply set in the ground.  One, who gardens in northern Canada has multiple 3 inch diameter bulbs that have naturally pulled themselves at least 6 inches down.

I have experienced surfacing lily bulbs but the reason was crowding. When I started digging I found layers of bulbs about a foot deep. They had had no space sideways and had gone up instead.

Thank you very much, Gene!
I have slug bait but it is not very useful outside with lots of rain. I like to grow lilies (and other plants as well) in as natural settings as possible and it is impossible to keep all places slug-free.
The winters are usually mild with a few cold spells but the two last winters were very cold. However the soil did not freeze very deep.

I would like to try seed of martagon and wigginsi, please!

It does look like L. columbianum, assuming it has whorled leaves.  First flowers are not always the best to identify, but the large anthers and pedicel form also aid in a positive ID of the species.

Congratulations on growing it to flowering from seed, Roland.  Although easy to germinate, these western American species are difficult for me in my climate.  Except for L. pardilinum, I haven't been successful.

Dave, L. grayi is a beauty! The second one, L. buschianum or whatever - is the flower zygorphic or a little damaged?

That lily does look like L. concolor, but var. pulchellum is not supposed to have spots.  I grow varieties strictum and coridion, and both have the characteristically short (for a Lilium) style.

I have yet to see a photo of Lilium grayi that wasn't to die for.  Yours is not exception, Dave.  It seems they are more "common" outside the USA!  Peter Zale is still looking for a verifiable wild source of seed for this species for the Ornamental Plant Germplasm Center on the Ohio State campus.  If anyone can help, send me a message/email and I can give you his contact info.

A stately species, Dave! I have tried it several times but never got it growing. The slugs attack the soft stem when it is about a foot high and the plant is damaged >:(

A most admirable specimen, Dave!

I have never liked hybrid roses much, and what do you think was my first full time job out of college: a greenhouse rose cutter.  I harvested the roses sold in florist shops.  Well, I did develop a liking for rosebuds, as being able to discern if a bud should be cut that morning or that afternoon was imperative. 

I have always liked buds of all kinds, and since then, even more their development stages.  Now that you have patiently waded through this talk of roses  :rolleyes:, here's the lily part:

Some lilies, Lilium monadelphum included, have very nice ornamental buds.  This is L. monadelphum var. szovitsianum (syn: L. szovitsianum).  From the looks of your flowers' backs, Dave, your buds would be far better.

Your buds aren't bad either, Rick  ;)

Very nice, Dave. How many lilies do you have?

Good Day to All,

I'm Michael Loos, Interlaken, NY.  I've been a gardener for many years and recently re-upped with NARGS.  Just moved and bought a property in upstate, hopefully to have the place for the next 50 years.  I've been in communication with Rick about martagons and have a few other lily queries.

The lilies I've had have been left in the previous garden (Mom would miss them) and I'm buying a few in the next few weeks.  I'd like to scale them before they go into the ground.  I've twin-scaled Amaryllidaceae, but when is the best time to scale a true lily?  Spring?  Fall?  Does it matter species to species?  Does the type of germination for seed, epigeal vs hypogeal, correlate to timing for scaling?

On a more business-y note - where have you all been shopping?  I'm looking at B&D, and the Lily Garden for more uncommon hybrid selections.  Are there any places that actually have bulbs of the rarer species?  (Brent and Becky's has a few.) Would any of you have things to sell?  I'll be working with the upcoming second round seed distribution.  Perhaps there will be a thing or two available.

This is a good thread.  I've been enjoying (read: lusting after) the pictures.  There is great commentary and information.  Fantastic stuff!

Thank you,

Michael
Zone 5, but this winter 7, so far.

Welcome aboard, Michael!

I have to admit that I had to look up twin scaling:
http://www.bulbsociety.org/About_Bulbs/BULB_BASICS/Twinscaling.html
Goodness, the potential multiplication of plants is mind boggling!  I've never tried it myself.  As a gardener, I would never have the need for such a population.

Twin-scaling certainly is a lot of cutting and wounding, presenting a myriad of entry points for disease.  As of yet, exactly sterile conditions is not something I am willing to fuss with, so I won't be doing it in the near future.  But don't let me stop you.  Twin scaling should work fine with lilies.  Most people just use whole scales, and sterile conditions are not so important.

The idea to include a tiny bit of basal plate is sound and advantageous, but usually not necessary.  Bulblets can be more plentiful and more precocious with a piece of basal plate.  In general, the closer to the basal plate that a scale is removed, the better potential for success.  Consequently, I try to remove individual scales with a small knife (cutting very close to or including the basal plate), rather than the unexacting method of breaking them off with fingers.  This concept is more important with less vigorous lilies, often species.  Hybrids seldom require such scrutiny.  I am not sure where the slower growing tetraploids fall in this respect.

Another thing one might investigate is that with lilies, the basal plate seems to be more susceptible to disease.  I am not sure if this is because it is at the bottom of the bulb where excess moisture might accumulate, or if it is inherent in the genetic make up.

Quote:

When is the best time to scale a true lily?  Does it matter species to species?

General consensus for timing is when the bulb is "dormant".  But I really think that is more a result of experience by convenience, rather than trial and error.  Few people dig lilies during their growing phase, and even fewer attempt scaling these.  

That said, I have come across one exception with Lilium monadelphum, and I suspect it might include its other allied Caucsian Lilium spp.  The study found that optimum bulblet production from scaling of L. monadelphum occurs right after flowering, and becomes less successful as the season progresses.  The study also found that scaling the species when dormant failed.  But, at least one anecdotal account (on the SRGC forum, I think) proved this not to be the case.  However, the degree of success was not mentioned.  I hope someone else will add to this conversation.

Quote:

Does the type of germination for seed, epigeal vs hypogeal, correlate to timing for scaling?

Regarding Lilium germination modes, again, I don't think this has been researched.  However, if you take the example of L. monadelphum above, it does not match the easy success of scaling observed with L. martagon, even though they both possess delayed hypogeal germination.

On the other hand, when the odd L. martagon seed germinates immediate hypogeal instead of the normal delayed hypogeal, the resulting plant is always more vigorous and precocious, and I would expect that to influence scaling success, too.

Quote:

Are there any places that actually have bulbs of the rarer species?

B&D, Brent and Becky's, The Lily Garden, The Lily Nook, Gardens North are all good reputable businesses.  Faraway Flowers, too, for more uncommon hybrids and some species.  Offerings vary greatly from year to year and fall to spring.  The owner has strong ties to England.  And Michael, you will have a fun time checking out all the other goodies at Gardens North, too.

I might also add that I am not a know-it-all here (just know-a-lot) and encourage other opinions.

Thank you all for great responses.  Wonderful information Rick.

Oh yes, I wasn't even thinking of twin scaling (gilding) the lilies.  I will be happy to get a few more out of the ones coming in this spring. 

At some point, I'll get around to serious bulb cuttage.  I think this summer it will be time to dice the Galanthus into little bits.

From seed I will be starting with superbum, as I have that from the Seed Ex already.  Anyone else get their seeds?

Dave, nice stuff.  How hot is it down there at this time of year?

Sometimes I like the backs of lily flowers better than the fronts,
especially with trumpets.

2n trumpet hybrid crosses:

Lilium "Mrs. R. O. Backhouse' and a Lilium martagon seedling

Lilium majoense and Lilium lancifolium 'Flore Pleno' (var. planescens)

Simply gorgeous, and great photos too, really showing off the magnificent blooms from the back.  Is there a more elegant flower than lily blooms?  I don't think so.

Lori wrote:

How does Lilium lancifolium var. planescens differ from the norm, Rick?  

Multiple petals.  Usually 2-3 times the normal six.  I've never checked to see if it is consistant.  But with the hose-in hose form, I think it will always be multiples of three.  And yes, it is flatter than the normal.  

There was a reason why I preserved the name planescens over Flore Pleno, besides it being what I obtained it as, but heck if I remember.    Another one of those "so long ago" things.  I have some old literature with the name, but a current googling of planescens, etc., tells me I should update it.

Lilium lancifolium 'Flore Pleno'

Lori wrote:

My eyes tricked me into thinking it had very long, very recurved petals.  ???

:D The hose-in-hose effect...
Instead of petals being evenly spaced all over (like in a rose), these are in ranks. ;D

Most uplifting to see these, Rick and Dave! (And no lily beetles I presume ;) )

How do we attach a picture?  I've been trying...

Michael

always good to try again...

This is an un-named hybrid from the Cornell breeding program.  I wonder what the ones they KEPT look like!

Yes, thankfully, no lily beetles.

Thank you, but I can't take ownership of the lily.  It's Judith's.  The plant is indeed about 7.5 feet tall.  I hope to get offsets this spring.  Perhaps, I'll get around to scaling it.  I don't remember if it has fragrance and that may be why Cornell passed on the plant.  It may, however, be good for additional breeding for size and color of Orienpets. 

Thank you for the assistance posting the photo.  It will get easier the more I do it...

Michael

We've had a few lilies come through our summer so far!
Lilium "X-Phi" is a turk's cap Aurelian Hybrid

"Pappo's Beauty" is an Oriental or Orient-pet,

And "Leslie Woodriff" is similar but not as vigorous with us,

cheers
fermi

A strong, straight stem on that Aurelian, Fermi. And a well spaced inflorescense, too.

Very nice, all of them!

As I don't have lilies yet I have to show one from last year. Which one is it?

A very old martagon section lily hybrid from 1921, Mrs. R.O. Backhouse is still one of my favorites.
       

Lilium martagon 'Claude Shride'.  Last season the white strip on the petal backs were much more prominent.
       

Some martagon seedlings:
       

A cross of mine involving Lilium tsingtauense.  The bud was quite interesting, showing tips of bright orange, but the flower, though nice, is not what I anticipated.  The flower is unusually flat for this type of lily.
       

Lilium 'Brotsing', another martagon section hybrid, is quite large and has white buds.