Allium 2011

In Norway the counterpart is A ursinum called "ramsløk" (løk is equivalent to leek). "Ram" actually means strong smell as of a ram ;D

The plant is much used as a culinary herb (among certain people ;)

I've grown many alliums over the year but for some reason, despite many attempts, I cannot get the rampions (generic) to germinate.  I am trying both species again this year.  Both are still in strat.

Ditto on the birch bark.

I put the native Allium tricoccum seed I collected last year directly between moist paper towels at room temperature until mid-September.  I think it was Deno, or perhaps someone else, that said the odd seed might germinate without a cold treatment.  But there was no germination, and they still looked as healthy as can be.  They have been in the fridge since then, and as of 2 days ago, they remain the status quo.  I am very optimistic.  

The best Allium tricoccum I have found in the wild (and I haven't observed that many - 25?) have always been on an east facing gentle slope, and the best of those on the east side of fallen maple trunks that are just up hill (to the west) that give it extra protection from late day heat. 

And ditto for [i]Decentra canadensis[i].

Wow, I am very surprised how close the species looks to our present vegetable onion.  I think I would get a lot of funny looks from visiting gardeners if I grew that.  On the other hand, they would be just as surprised as me!

Hi Len.  Glad you stopped in!  There's always good, informative allium talk here with the Onion Man (Mark).

Hoy wrote:

The plant is much used as a culinary herb (among certain people ;)

My first post, having lurked in the undergrowth for some time!

Hello Hoy! I believe I'm one of those "certain people" and proud of it! :)

Mark: You knew how to entice me out of the bushes, didn't you - posting some pictures of some tasty smelly variegated onions - my favourite subject!

Re- Allium tricoccum germination - my experience that it typically takes 2 years before they start popping up, so patience is important! Haven't had a lot of success with them over here in Norway. Most have simply disappeared (only one has survived for several years but doesn't get any bigger). I planted another batch last year, so I haven't given up yet.  I wonder if our summers are too cool and wet (but I note Mark’s comment of dryness also being a problem – narrow ecological requirements it seems? – this is a species that has a summer rest. Haven’t seen it elsewhere in Europe apart from in Kew Gardens, which makes me suspect it is difficult.  It’s also not listed by the comprehensive RHS Plant Finder (http://apps.rhs.org.uk/rhsplantfinder).  I rembering reading some time ago. As I’ve understood it ramsons (ursinum) and ramps (tricoccum) are only distant relatives Allium-wise, despite the resemblance. I’ve only once tried to germinate ursinum – I received a Russian “cultivated” form (from the Caucasus), but it didn’t germinate. I live near the world’s most northern ursinum site – a place called “Ramslia”!

Re- Allium vavilovii: I had seed of this early 2000s and I decided that the plant that materialized was nothing more than fistulosum and removed it (perhaps I was wrong!). Received more seed (from Sweden) in 2007, but those plants died in a very cold winter. Planted a new one from the same batch last year, so I hope I’ll have a chance to study it more closely next summer.

P.S: My avatar is a salad with Allium ursinum flowers  (Yes, I agree – an improvement on my SRGC avatar). 

Thanks for the welcome, Mark.

Good to hear that you're now using as well as knowing your onions! I've always thought that The Onion Man need never go hungry (even if times get really bad)! What inspired me to try Allium cernuum years ago was getting a copy of Sturtevant’s Edible Plants of the World (in Seattle)  and reading that Allium cernuum and A. canadense had formed almost the entire source of food to the French Missionary (Jacques) Marquette and his party from Green Bay to the present site of Chicago in 1674! Fittingly, there’s a park in Chicago called Marquette Park (named after Pere Marquette) and a remnant of the original prairie on which Chicago was built and thrives there thanks to volunteers, with Allium cernuum one of the original plants…..Of course, Chicago simply means onion, so if you fancy a change you could just call yourself The Chicago Man!  Link to the Sturtevant text: http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclectic/sturtevant/allium.html

Hello, Stephen!  That's a very colorful and scrumptious looking salad.  I wonder if you are the first to have food as an avatar...
Care to elaborate on its ingredients?   Do I see daylily flowers?

I have eaten Allium stellatum (bulbs), the more common native onion species here in Minnesota.  The species (and A. cernuum) were eaten by all the Native American tribes that lived here.  I wonder if there is a difference, tastily speaking, between stellatum and cernuum.  Have you tried them both, Stephen?

About ramps (Allium tricoccum), "fresh seed have an underdeveloped embryo that must develop before the cold period.Late summer/early fall planting should be enough."
Cultivation of ramps-Jackie Greenfield&Jeanine Davis, NCSU
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-133.html

The origin of the name "Chicago" is Native American, and is thought to refer to A. tricoccum, the "smelly onion" that was abundant there.

The few wild ramps that reside close to me are in maple/oak forest, and in areas that definitely go dry in summer.  In fact, they sit up on a hill adjacent to a small lake, not down near the bottom where it is more moist all season.

Hello Rick!

The salad (you did ask!): one of my less diverse efforts with a mere 77 varieties (and 61 species). The flowers were: 
Alliaria petiolata
Allium cernuum “Pink Giant”
Allium schoenoprasum “Pink Flowered"
Allium schoenoprasum “Wallington White”
Allium schoenoprasum ssp. sibiricum
Allium ursinum
Campanula latifolia
Cardamine pratensis
Crambe maritima
Hemerocallis lilioasphodelus
Hemerocallis middendorfii
Myrrhis odorata
Osmorhiza claytonii
Osmorhiza longistylis
Rubus x (R.a arcticus x stellatus);
Taraxacum officinale "Pissenlit Coeur Plein Ameliore"
Viola x wittrockiana "Black Princess"
Wasabi japonica; Wasabi
(You can see cooked ostrich fern too)

Stellatum: I’ve grown an imposter for many years. Hopefully I will have the real thing this year, thanks to Mark (I think)....

Tricoccum: That makes sense as I have usually been sent seed mid-winter, so wouldn’t germinate until the second year.

Chicago: I’d heard of various candidate species: cernuum, canadense and tricoccum. However, this article seems to suggest we’re both wrong (can’t see the end of the article thought): http://www.jstor.org/pss/40192527Haven’t time to check more.... Anyone know what current thinking is?

Skulski wrote:

The birchbark makes a nice background to the photo, Mark!

Don't you have a word for birchbark? In Norwegian it is called "never"  ;D and was used for many things, roofs, cups, boxes etc.

Stephen it is not you first but second post! And I knew you eat such green stuff ;D I do it myself; every year I get a present from a lady I know and that is Allium ursinum butter!

Stephenb wrote:

The salad (you did ask!): one of my less diverse efforts with a mere 77 varieties (and 61 species).

An epicurean's delight!

And not boring at all!
(I wonder if Wim's R. ficaria 'Salad Bowl' - wait, just read your other post: not the flowers!)

Hoy wrote:

Skulski wrote:

The birchbark makes a nice background to the photo, Mark!

Don't you have a word for birchbark? In Norwegian it is called "never"  ;D and was used for many things, roofs, cups, boxes etc.

...don't forget it was used for bread (the inner bark at least)  :)

Just like to say that that I really enjoyed your NARGS article, Mark ....bedtime reading the last few nights! Particularly like Green Eyes and Wall of Pink....just wish they were available over here... Same applies to Curly Mauve (above). Victorialis is also a favourite and I'll post something about that one soon myself. If you ever get seed off that variegated nutans, would love to try it... :)  

Here's one of my spring favourites, Asian Allium carolinianum photographed a couple of days ago:

Mark
How many species of allium do you grow? The list seems endless.
I'll have to think twice, before asking how many varieties and hybrids there are.

McDonough wrote:

A. victorialis 'Cantabria' left, 'Kemerovo' on the right.
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Are your Cantabria and Kemerovo reversed? The picture further down should be Kemerovo if it's right?

Thought I'd show you my Victory Onions as they are today. I have about 10 different accessions, but most are still small. Here's a picture of each of the ones that are a decent size:

1) Received as var platyphyllum (from Japan) - very early and much further advanced than the other two.
2) Allium ochotense (synonym) also from Asia
3) Allium victorialis (Norwegian naturalised population from the Lofoten Islands)

I've notice also that an accession from Kola (NW Arctic Russia) is also way ahead of the others.

...and I learned (in school?) that onion seed (Allium cepa) lost its viability rather quickly, that in practical terms it's not worth sowing seed more than a year old.  Is this only for the vegetable onion?  Only for dry seed?  Maybe moist storage prolongs viability?  Or maybe I'm just . . . . wrong?

My experience is that seed of Allium cepa and fistulosum vegetable cultivars remains viable for 2-3 years, longer than the oft-quoted 1 year, at least under my storage conditions (cool cellar - 2-3C in winter and maybe up to 15C in summer).
 

Here's my carolinianum in flower last summer! However, I've seen a significantly larger, more vigorous plant in the botanical gardens in Tromsø in Northern Norway, it seems to like cool conditions.

Like the Allium hymenorrhizum pictures. I have  plants from 2 or 3 sources and none look at all like carolinianum. I have pictures of this species in both the Oxford and Copenhagen Botanical Gardens and I see that both look wrong!

McDonough wrote:

A. victorialis - closeup views showing the burlap-like reticulated bulb coats; the bulbs sitting at and above the soil level.
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Mark - I notice that all of your victorialis seem to have green rather than red bases. Is that correct? All of mine have red bases apart from Cantabria (that includes the Norwegian material, plants from the Kola Peninsular (NW Russia) and Asia (received as A. ochotense and ssp platyphyllum). Do you know if you find both green and red forms in the same populations?

More great Alliums Wim and Tony!

A couple of years ago I toured Northern Norway early June and a lovely white flowered Allium I hadn't seen before was in full bloom and I was told it was Allium humile. I can't find much reference to it on SRGC or here as it's such a lovely floriferous plant. It is very early (only paradoxum beats it here) and is a few days earlier than zebdanense. I was given a plant and it flowered here for the first time:

1) Picture taken in Tromsø, Northern Norway
2) I wondered what it was when i saw it in bud (I didn't immediately think Allium)
3-4) In flower last night

Beautiful Allium, Stephen! I regret I didn't ask for a bulb when I visited you ;D I will next time ;)

Last week I had several Allium experiences which I'd like to share with you. I've had a project the last 3 years for the Norwegian Genetic Resource Centre collecting old perennial edible onions from old gardens and mostly old people across Norway (mostly Allium x proliferum, Allium fistulosum, A. schoenoprasum, A. scorodoprasum and A. victorialis, about 11 species in total and well over 100 accessions).  I'm currently growing them out in my garden so that we can compare the different accessions. Anyway I had to give a presentation of the project at a seminar in Southern Sweden. On the way home, I visited the Copenhagen (Denmark) and Gøteborg (Gothenburg) botanical gardens and took a lot of Allium (and other) pictures. In particular, Gothenburg has an amazing collection of plants and I could easily spend a couple of days there.  

Gøteborg has an fantastic bulb garden with many Alliums in honour of Per Wendelbo (1927-1981) who was a botanist and professor at the garden, specialising in Himalayan plants and many of the plants in the garden were collected by him. Here is a selection (see the file names for the plant names):

The last batch from the Wendelbo garden, more from the open garden later. Let me know if you see any mistakes!

You have to mention, Stephen, that Per was a Norwegian (and I thought that he was an expert of bulbs from Iran (he also worked at the botanical garden in Teheran) and surrounding countries). He died 1981 in a car accident when he should start his work in Bergen.

Marvellous bulbs you show, anyway!

Yes, I thought he was Norwegian, but there is no mention of this important fact on the Swedish sign and I didn't find anything on his wikipedia page (very short), so I didn't mention it....

On the Norwegian wikipedia page, http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_Wendelbo you will see that the page is classified under Swedish Botanists....

By the way, the sign mentions that the garden contains some 1,600 accessions!

Stephenb wrote:

Yes, I thought he was Norwegian, but there is no mention of this important fact on the Swedish sign and I didn't find anything on his wikipedia page (very short), so I didn't mention it....

On the Norwegian wikipedia page, http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_Wendelbo you will see that the page is classified under Swedish Botanists....

By the way, the sign mentions that the garden contains some 1,600 accessions!

Better with this one then ;D
http://www.snl.no/.nbl_biografi/Per_Wendelbo/utdypning_%E2%80%93_1

Excellent, takk!

In the meantime, as I was wandering around the garden, it seemed that you were with me, Mark. See the following set of images (none of the plants were in flower, so I won't bore you with pictures of greens):