Trillium germination

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RickR
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Joined: 2009-09-21
Trillium germination

Jan, your 2011 collected Trillium kurabayashii seed have germinated! :o

You were so generous that I decided to plant some, and then kept some in the moist packed bag you sent. (Don't we all like to watch the actual germination process if we can?) Both are sitting on the kitchen counter. I guess I just never got around to putting them in the fridge.... Now every one in the bag is sending out a radicle! And hopefully, the planted seeds are, too.

From what I read, most trilliums don't germinate until after a cold treatment, and then naturally go through the next season underground, and send up a leaf in the second growing season.

Now my question for you, Dave, Wim, or anyone else who might know:how long should the seed establish its root before the next cold treatment?

If I try the "standard" 3 months warm (for root growth) and 3 months cold (in the fridge), that will take me to June 5th. Can I shorten it any? This scenario is from the start of actual germination rather than from planting, so I would think I could take at least a week off the warm period(?).

What do you all think?

RickR
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-09-21

It's interesting that at such an early age you can already see the initial development of the thickened rhizome that we commonly call a trillium bulb.

             

Rick Rodich    zone 4a.    Annual precipitation ~24 inches near Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

bulborum
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Joined: 2011-02-01

Maybe this helps Rick

This is the information from Jelitto

Roland

Cold-germinaters are still referred to as frost-germinaters, although this isn't quite correct. The sowing must be kept warm (about +18 to 22°C) [about 64 to 72°F] and moist for the first 2-4 weeks. After this period the sowing must be kept at a cold temperature (between -4 and +4°C) [between 25 and 39°F] for another 4-6 weeks. Colder temperatures of -5°C [23°F] are only advantageous for most species of the Ranunculus family. It is not so important if the temperature is higher or lower during the cooling period, but the cooling period has to be prolonged because the synthesis of the germination inducer, hormonlike acid, slows down or comes to a standstill. It is beneficial to cover the sowing with snow during the cooling-period. The temperature below it usually keeps in the optimum range of -4 to 0°C [25 to 32°F]. The sowing is kept moist, and the melting snow helps to destroy the shell, which is advantageous for the germinating seedling. After this cooling-period the sowing may not be immediately exposed to high temperatures. The most effective temperatures are between +5 to 12°C [41 to 54°F], even if germination has started. The best location for this sowing, even in March, April and May, is the open field, the cold frame or a cold greenhouse.

Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/518187888211511 Normal Zone <8   -7°C _ -12°C      10 F to +20 F RGB or RBGG means: Roland and Gemma de Boer

RickR
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-09-21

Thanks, Roland.  There is some good information there.

I guess this is what I am really asking:

With hypogeal germinating Lilium spp., there is often a difference in the size of the initial bulb, depending on how long the seedling is kept at the first warm stage.  Four months instead of three months, for instance, can produce larger bulbs.

Similarly, does the thickened rhizome of a trillium seedling get significantly larger with a longer initial warm period before the seedling sends up its first leaf?

Rick Rodich    zone 4a.    Annual precipitation ~24 inches near Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

Toole
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Joined: 2010-07-02
RickR wrote:

Jan, your 2011 collected Trillium kurabayashii seed have germinated!  :o

You were so generous that I decided to plant some, and then kept some in the moist packed bag you sent.  (Don't we all like to watch the actual germination process if we can?)  Both are sitting on the kitchen counter.  I guess I just never got around to putting them in the fridge.... Now every one in the bag is sending out a radicle!  And hopefully, the planted seeds are, too.

From what I read, most trilliums don't germinate until after a cold treatment, and then naturally go through the next season underground, and send up a leaf in the second growing season.

Now my question for you, Dave, Wim, or anyone else who might know:how long should the seed establish its root before the next cold treatment?

If I try the "standard" 3 months warm (for root growth) and 3 months cold (in the fridge), that will take me to June 5th.  Can I shorten it any?  This scenario is from the start of actual germination rather than from planting, so I would think I could take at least a week off the warm period(?).

What do you all think?

Hello Rick

I know this is very unscientific but a good friend gave me a bit of advice years ago about Trillium seed sowing in NZ and that was 'you plant em, he knows when to germinate' so i just sow T.seed outside in a shade frame as soon as i receive it regardless of the time of the year .

Interestingly i also received some of Jan's T.kurabayashii seed last month,( sown straight away)--a check in the pot today and guess what ,my seed has also germinated like yours with radicles ........

Cheers Dave.

Invercargill Bottom of the South Island New Zealand Zone 8 maritime climate 1100mm,(40 in),rainfall p.a. Nil snow cover

bulborum
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Title: Guest
Joined: 2011-02-01
RickR wrote:

Similarly, does the thickened rhizome of a trillium seedling get significantly larger with a longer initial warm period before the seedling sends up its first leaf?

I don't know Rick

Maybe I am lazybut I let seeds go as they goI just have a look when it is time to re-potsometimes after a few monthssometimes after three yearsmost after two years

I am not in a hurry

what I find is that fresh seeds from slow germinating seeds partly germinatesand the year after mostly the rest

Roland

Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/518187888211511 Normal Zone <8   -7°C _ -12°C      10 F to +20 F RGB or RBGG means: Roland and Gemma de Boer

RickR
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-09-21

Well, I have the seeds planted in four different pots, so maybe a little experimentation is called for.  Hopefully, I will know next season if the first leaves are significantly different in size.

Rick Rodich    zone 4a.    Annual precipitation ~24 inches near Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

Jeddeloh
Title: Member
Joined: 2010-05-02

Well, the damn computer ate my first reply so let’s try again with a backup in Word.

I’m pleased to know my seed is germinating world wide-New Zealand, Belgium (personal correspondent) and the Midwest.  It’s nice to send out a batch of “happy camper” seed because the seed I sent to Belgium a year ago didn’t germinate (more on that later).

Trillium kurabayashii usually sends up a leaf the first spring and it’s a big fat leaf.  I’m not sure a longer warm period would result in a bigger rhizome since I would think the ability to photosynthesize would be more important in building the rhizome size.  But hey, this is just my guess so please experiment and report back to us.

John Gyer, a frequent Trillium-L poster and occasional NARGS author, wrote a Quarterly article some time ago advocating sowing immature trillium seed to bypass the stubborn dormancy problems trillium seed often exhibits. I know John has done most of his work with eastern Trillium since he lives on the East Coast.  I’ve found that sowing immature T. kurabayashii seed usually results in an empty pot with rotted seed.  I think this is what happened with the first batch of seed I sent to Belgium.  The seed seems to need to be very ripe ie the pods really mushy and starting to split open.  You’ll know the seed if ripe enough if the arils rot down quickly when you put the whole mess in a plastic bag.  Of course if you’re not mailing the seed somewhere you can just sow it arils and all.  That’s what I did with my original seed (got the fat, mushy seed pods at a chapter picnic) and I got great germination the following spring.

The last two years I’ve had a lousy harvest of T. kurabayashii seed due to our lousy spring/summer.  Hoping for something better next year or Southern California might start looking attractive to this webfooted Oregonian.

Jan

Jan Jeddeloh, Portland, Oregon, USA, Zone 8.  Rainy winters (40 inches or 1 meter) and pleasant dry summers which don't start until July most years!

Hoy
Hoy's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-12-15

I don't know about the fate of my  share - haven't dared to dig in my pots ;)

Trond Rogaland, Norway - with cool, often rainy summers  (29C max) and mild, often rainy winters (180 cm/year)!

AmyO
AmyO's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-12-06

Oh hey!!! How can I get in on this Trillium seed sharing party??? I should have lots of  T. erectum luteum next year to share.  ;D

Amy Olmsted Hubbardton, VT, Zone 4

RickR
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-09-21

Jan had posted her generous offer in October.  But alas, we have exhausted her supply.  Check next year, she says:

http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=795.0

There are also selections in the NARGS seed ex. :)

Rick Rodich    zone 4a.    Annual precipitation ~24 inches near Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

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