Lilies, anyone?

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RickR
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-09-21

A most admirable specimen, Dave!

I have never liked hybrid roses much, and what do you think was my first full time job out of college: a greenhouse rose cutter.  I harvested the roses sold in florist shops.  Well, I did develop a liking for rosebuds, as being able to discern if a bud should be cut that morning or that afternoon was imperative. 

I have always liked buds of all kinds, and since then, even more their development stages.  Now that you have patiently waded through this talk of roses  :rolleyes:, here's the lily part:

Some lilies, Lilium monadelphum included, have very nice ornamental buds.  This is L. monadelphum var. szovitsianum (syn: L. szovitsianum).  From the looks of your flowers' backs, Dave, your buds would be far better.

             

Rick Rodich    zone 4a.    Annual precipitation ~24 inches
near Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

Hoy
Hoy's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-12-15

Your buds aren't bad either, Rick  ;)

Trond
Rogaland, Norway - with cool, often rainy summers  (29C max) and mild, often rainy winters (180 cm/year)!

Toole
Toole's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2010-07-02

Hoy wrote:

Your buds aren't bad either, Rick  ;)

I thought so too Hoy --i think any difference could be to my cameras settings.

Here's a few more --a couple of unknown asiatic hybrids plus one which maybe is L.'Latvia' .

Lilium pardalinum.I used to have some nice clumps of this ....

Cheers Dave.

Invercargill
Bottom of the South Island New Zealand
Zone 8 maritime climate
1100mm,(40 in),rainfall p.a.
Nil snow cover

Toole
Toole's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2010-07-02

Lilium duchartrei

Cheers Dave.

Invercargill
Bottom of the South Island New Zealand
Zone 8 maritime climate
1100mm,(40 in),rainfall p.a.
Nil snow cover

deesen
deesen's picture
Title: Guest
Joined: 2011-01-31

Lovely stuff Dave.

David Nicholson
in Devon, UK  Zone 9b

Hoy
Hoy's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-12-15

Very nice, Dave. How many lilies do you have?

Trond
Rogaland, Norway - with cool, often rainy summers  (29C max) and mild, often rainy winters (180 cm/year)!

Michael
Title: Member
Joined: 2011-12-08

Good Day to All,

I'm Michael Loos, Interlaken, NY.  I've been a gardener for many years and recently re-upped with NARGS.  Just moved and bought a property in upstate, hopefully to have the place for the next 50 years.  I've been in communication with Rick about martagons and have a few other lily queries.

The lilies I've had have been left in the previous garden (Mom would miss them) and I'm buying a few in the next few weeks.  I'd like to scale them before they go into the ground.  I've twin-scaled Amaryllidaceae, but when is the best time to scale a true lily?  Spring?  Fall?  Does it matter species to species?  Does the type of germination for seed, epigeal vs hypogeal, correlate to timing for scaling?

On a more business-y note - where have you all been shopping?  I'm looking at B&D, and the Lily Garden for more uncommon hybrid selections.  Are there any places that actually have bulbs of the rarer species?  (Brent and Becky's has a few.) Would any of you have things to sell?  I'll be working with the upcoming second round seed distribution.  Perhaps there will be a thing or two available.

This is a good thread.  I've been enjoying (read: lusting after) the pictures.  There is great commentary and information.  Fantastic stuff!

Thank you,

Michael
Zone 5, but this winter 7, so far.

RickR
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-09-21

Welcome aboard, Michael!

I have to admit that I had to look up twin scaling:
http://www.bulbsociety.org/About_Bulbs/BULB_BASICS/Twinscaling.html
Goodness, the potential multiplication of plants is mind boggling!  I've never tried it myself.  As a gardener, I would never have the need for such a population.

Twin-scaling certainly is a lot of cutting and wounding, presenting a myriad of entry points for disease.  As of yet, exactly sterile conditions is not something I am willing to fuss with, so I won't be doing it in the near future.  But don't let me stop you.  Twin scaling should work fine with lilies.  Most people just use whole scales, and sterile conditions are not so important.

The idea to include a tiny bit of basal plate is sound and advantageous, but usually not necessary.  Bulblets can be more plentiful and more precocious with a piece of basal plate.  In general, the closer to the basal plate that a scale is removed, the better potential for success.  Consequently, I try to remove individual scales with a small knife (cutting very close to or including the basal plate), rather than the unexacting method of breaking them off with fingers.  This concept is more important with less vigorous lilies, often species.  Hybrids seldom require such scrutiny.  I am not sure where the slower growing tetraploids fall in this respect.

Another thing one might investigate is that with lilies, the basal plate seems to be more susceptible to disease.  I am not sure if this is because it is at the bottom of the bulb where excess moisture might accumulate, or if it is inherent in the genetic make up.

Quote:

When is the best time to scale a true lily?  Does it matter species to species?

General consensus for timing is when the bulb is "dormant".  But I really think that is more a result of experience by convenience, rather than trial and error.  Few people dig lilies during their growing phase, and even fewer attempt scaling these.  

That said, I have come across one exception with Lilium monadelphum, and I suspect it might include its other allied Caucsian Lilium spp.  The study found that optimum bulblet production from scaling of L. monadelphum occurs right after flowering, and becomes less successful as the season progresses.  The study also found that scaling the species when dormant failed.  But, at least one anecdotal account (on the SRGC forum, I think) proved this not to be the case.  However, the degree of success was not mentioned.  I hope someone else will add to this conversation.

Quote:

Does the type of germination for seed, epigeal vs hypogeal, correlate to timing for scaling?

Regarding Lilium germination modes, again, I don't think this has been researched.  However, if you take the example of L. monadelphum above, it does not match the easy success of scaling observed with L. martagon, even though they both possess delayed hypogeal germination.

On the other hand, when the odd L. martagon seed germinates immediate hypogeal instead of the normal delayed hypogeal, the resulting plant is always more vigorous and precocious, and I would expect that to influence scaling success, too.

Quote:

Are there any places that actually have bulbs of the rarer species?

B&D, Brent and Becky's, The Lily Garden, The Lily Nook, Gardens North are all good reputable businesses.  Faraway Flowers, too, for more uncommon hybrids and some species.  Offerings vary greatly from year to year and fall to spring.  The owner has strong ties to England.  And Michael, you will have a fun time checking out all the other goodies at Gardens North, too.

I might also add that I am not a know-it-all here (just know-a-lot) and encourage other opinions.

Rick Rodich    zone 4a.    Annual precipitation ~24 inches
near Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

Lori S.
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-10-27

Here's a list of sources of lily bulbs (and some seeds, I suppose) from the American Lily Society website:

http://www.lilies.org/06d_sources.html

P.S.  Gardens North has seeds of a few lilies, though not bulbs.  If you are looking for seed sources, the NARGS and SRGC seedexes typically list a lot of lilies (SRGC's list this year was phenomenal).  Also, private seed vendors, including, for example, the Czech collectors mentioned in other threads here, can also be excellent resources for the less commonly-grown lily species.

Lori
Calgary, Alberta, Canada - Zone 3
-30 C to +30 C (rarely!); elevation ~1130m; annual precipitation ~40 cm

Tony Willis
Title: Guest
Joined: 2011-02-01

Twin scaling seems to be going a bit too far but I always take some scales of any lily I receive at the time I get it,dormant or growing.A piece of basal plate is not necessary and I always break them off.

I put these in a polythene bag with a bit of damp vermiculite and leave them in the airing cupboard. Without fail bulbils develop in a few weeks/months and can then be potted up.If it is time for them to grow they produce a leaf and if it is winter they sit there until spring and then come up.

The only thing I do is if it is a winter potting I keep them cold but frost free,this is a personal fad and I have no evidence it makes any difference.

Time of year has proved irrelevant(I have never done Caucasian lilies) it works anytime when material is available.

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