Cremanthodium ID

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Peter George
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-09-03

Hot is was! Mark, since we're discussing Cremanthodiums, I found out what that huge leafed plant I had in the small garden in front of my porch actually is. I gave one seedling to a neighbor gardener, and she's grown it out. It's about 5 feet tall, and is a rather attractive Inula. Chris has seen it, and perhaps he can recall exactly which one. But it IS garden worthy, but not ROCK garden worthy.

Peter George, Petersham, MA (north central MA, close to the NH/VT borders), zones 5b and 6 around the property.

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

Peter wrote:

Hot is was! Mark, since we're discussing Cremanthodiums, I found out what that huge leafed plant I had in the small garden in front of my porch actually is. I gave one seedling to a neighbor gardener, and she's grown it out. It's about 5 feet tall, and is a rather attractive Inula. Chris has seen it, and perhaps he can recall exactly which one. But it IS garden worthy, but not ROCK garden worthy.

Ah ha, I was wondering what that monster was!  Several attractive Inula species are pictured in Flowers of the Himalaya, all but one are smaller plants, Inula racemosa is the only tall one listed, growing to 1.75 m (over 5'), although there's no illustration of it in the book.  Here's a web link to a photo said to be Inula racemosa:
http://www.esveld.nl/htmldiaen/i/inrson.php
...and an image from Jelitto:
http://www.jelitto.com/english/IA074.x.htm

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

Chadwell
Title: Member
Joined: 2011-06-22

During my Fall Expedition to W.Tibet/ NW Himalaya, I expect to gather seed of Cremanthodium ellisii (boasting a delightful scent) from wet ledges growing with Meconopsis aculeata and probably miniature Cremanthodium decaisnei.  There is a possibility of locating Cremanthodium arnicoides, more typically found in the E.Himalaya and even Cremanthodium nanum - which inhabits screes up to 5700m!

This is my second ever post.  Once my eldest son (who acts as my IT consultant, since I find embracing modern technology a painful experience) shows me how to attach pictures, I intend to post images of an Inula growing in the garden of Kris Fenderson in NH (author of A SYNOPTIC GUIDE TO THE GENUS PRIMULA), which arrived as Cremanthodium arnicoides - Mark McDonough had generously driven me to an open day there whilst hosting me earlier this month.

I also have an image of what may prove to be the same plant, grown by a Cremanthodium enthusiast in Alaska, which again arrived from a seed exchange as Cremanthodium arnicoides.  It is always much easier to say what something is not, rather than what it actually is.  Just come across a web-site which lists 66 Cremanthodiums from China! So plenty of names to check identification-wise but with the bonus of more to experiment with in our gardens......

Boland
Boland's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-09-25

Sorry I can't answer any of the questions regarding source.  I grew four species of Cremanthodium....C. arnicoides, ellisi, helianthus and delavayi.  I am thinking it is allied to arnicoides.  Here are the rather slug-eaten leaves.

Todd Boland
St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
Zone 5b
1800 mm precipitation per year

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

Todd wrote:

Sorry I can't answer any of the questions regarding source.  I grew four species of Cremanthodium....C. arnicoides, ellisi, helianthus and delavayi.  I am thinking it is allied to arnicoides.  Here are the rather slug-eaten leaves.

Good to see the foliage, looks like it's in the right ballpark, thanks for supplying the photo.  When I saw that you listed C. helianthus, I thought maybe that would be a fit, but after finding photos in the wild in China, it's not that species either.  So, by process of elimination, it is not ellisii, helianthus, and not delavayi based on the FOC drawing showing a single-flowered species with pointed nearly sagittate leaves, leaving only C. arnicoides.

Here are some more links, the PDF describes 69 chinese Cremanthodium species!

Cremanthodium helianthus - photo gallery
http://www.cfh.ac.cn/album/ShowSpAlbum.aspx?spid=40889

Chinese Cremanthodium photo gallery, but no species names :-(
http://www.cfh.ac.cn/album/ShowSpAlbum.aspx?spid=40857

69 species of Cremanthodium described in this PDF, along with Ligularia, Senecio, a few Syneilesis, Doronicum, and related genera:
http://hua.huh.harvard.edu/china/mss/volume21/Senecioneae_DRAFT_2011-05-...

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

Chadwell
Title: Member
Joined: 2011-06-22

It turns out that I did not take any pictures of the Inula sp. (which arrived as Cremanthodium arnicoides) at Kris Fenderson's garden.

But do have an image of an Inula sp. (which arrived as Cremanthodium arnicoides from a Seed Exchange) with a member of my Himalayan Plant Association who gardens in Alaska (see attached).

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

Chris wrote:

It turns out that I did not take any pictures of the Inula sp. (which arrived as Cremanthodium arnicoides) at Kris Fenderson's garden.

But do have an image of an Inula sp. (which arrived as Cremanthodium arnicoides from a Seed Exchange) with a member of my Himalayan Plant Association who gardens in Alaska (see attached).

I thought that I had taken a photo of the Kris Fenderson plant too, but I did not  :(  The Inula photo you post shows a very handsome plant. 

(ps: glad you worked out the details of uploading photos here, there are some tips in the "Announcements from Moderators and Administrators" board: http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?board=1.0)

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

Boland
Boland's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-09-25

Great links Mark.....Ligularia are the next group I am growing...started 8 new species this year...time will tell if THEY are correctly ID'ed! The link you provided should help.

Todd Boland
St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
Zone 5b
1800 mm precipitation per year

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

Todd wrote:

Great links Mark.....Ligularia are the next group I am growing...started 8 new species this year...time will tell if THEY are correctly ID'ed! The link you provided should help.

Well, I just love a good mystery!

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

Lori S.
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-10-27

Hmm, I probably need to grow more Inula spp. too.  I like the drooping petals and the very elaborately fringed buds that some species have, e.g. I. orientalis; the form I grew of this also had very dark green-black buds, which was quite striking.
Chris, is the one in the photo much different than Inula helenium?

Todd, I imagine your climate would likely be ideal for Ligularia!  Not much drooping in the mid-day sun there, probably, as compared to here. 
Good link, Mark - I've never even heard of the majority of those species.

Lori
Calgary, Alberta, Canada - Zone 3
-30 C to +30 C (rarely!); elevation ~1130m; annual precipitation ~40 cm

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