Allium 2013

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Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

Time to catch up, much to comment on.

Trond, your Allium might be listera, a bit hard to tell.  I tried looking for one tell-tale characteristic, that is the inner tepals on A. listera are very narrow, 1-2mm, and noticeably narrower than the outer tepals. In A. ovalifolium, the inner and outer tepals are nearly equal in width. I can't make out the inner-outer tepals clearly enough in your photo to tell.  The leaf base is inconclusive because it can be variable, deeply cordate to merely rounded on ovalifolium, and cordate to rounded in listera, so tepal width is the prime determining factor.  By the way, my too forms are similar in that one has more pronounced pink pedicels, the other has white ones.

 

Rick, nice capture on Allium sikkimense, my form looks very similar to yours, but I've not been able to get a good photo of it.  Love the A. stellatum forms this time of year, one of the prettiest alliums with a wildflower look to it.  Interesting about your experience germination A. sacculiferum, congratulations on getting buds so soon.  At first flowering it might have an undersized head that's open and not as densely flowered as it will become with maturity.

 

Lori, the first 2 photos showing a tall form of Allium sikkimense are mouth watering, an extra fine form of A. sikkimense, just look at the flower head density and well-formed florets.  The dwarf 4" one does look like A. sikkimense too.  The bottom photos do look like A. cyaneum, not only with long exserted stamens, but very narrow foliage.  From your seed a couple years back, I have plants coming along of the extra nice white-flowered A. nutans that you showed recently, and ovalifolium, both taking their sweet time to bulk up.

 

Back to Rick, your question about best time to move/divide Allium based on their type, is a good one, and apropos given that I have started into a massive effort recovering my "Allium garden" after 2-1/2 years of neglect and zero weeding. This will be a total redo from scratch, every last one will be dug up, to carefully remove various invasive grasses and vetches that took over.  But I'll get back to this later.

 

Another blue-flowered Allium rarely seen is A. henryi, from China.  It has the blue open cups of A. cyaneum, except with flat, moderately broad leaves.  It is no taller than 6", and can be a shy bloomer.  At least this year rabbits did not eat the flower buds off, as they do most years.  This came to me from Chen Yi in 2003, misidentified as Allium cyathophorum (I was looking to get the type species, not var. farreri), but I'm happy with the misidentification, which I keyed to A. henryi.  It hasn't ever set seed, or at least, not that I recall. Some hasty low-light views from this morning before work.  It has distinctive oval ovaries that are taller than wide, and a pale apple green color.

   

Mark McDonough Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5 antennaria at aol.com  

Hoy
Hoy's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-12-15

[quote=Mark McD]

Time to catch up, much to comment on.

Trond, your Allium might be listera, a bit hard to tell.  I tried looking for one tell-tale characteristic, that is the inner tepals on A. listera are very narrow, 1-2mm, and noticeably narrower than the outer tepals. In A. ovalifolium, the inner and outer tepals are nearly equal in width. I can't make out the inner-outer tepals clearly enough in your photo to tell.  The leaf base is inconclusive because it can be variable, deeply cordate to merely rounded on ovalifolium, and cordate to rounded in listera, so tepal width is the prime determining factor.  By the way, my too forms are similar in that one has more pronounced pink pedicels, the other has white ones.

[/quote]

Mark, now I have taken a loser look using a magnifying glass. It is clear that on both plants one whorl of the tepals is much broader than the other (about 3x). However it looks as it is the inner whorl (petals) that is the broadest but they are reflexed and the outer whorl (sepals) is incurved!

So that means my plants are A. listera.

Trond Rogaland, Norway - with cool, often rainy summers  (29C max) and mild, often rainy winters (180 cm/year)!

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

[quote=Hoy]

 

Mark McD wrote:

Time to catch up, much to comment on.

Trond, your Allium might be listera, a bit hard to tell.  I tried looking for one tell-tale characteristic, that is the inner tepals on A. listera are very narrow, 1-2mm, and noticeably narrower than the outer tepals. In A. ovalifolium, the inner and outer tepals are nearly equal in width. I can't make out the inner-outer tepals clearly enough in your photo to tell.  The leaf base is inconclusive because it can be variable, deeply cordate to merely rounded on ovalifolium, and cordate to rounded in listera, so tepal width is the prime determining factor.  By the way, my too forms are similar in that one has more pronounced pink pedicels, the other has white ones.

Mark, now I have taken a loser look using a magnifying glass. It is clear that on both plants one whorl of the tepals is much broader than the other (about 3x). However it looks as it is the inner whorl (petals) that is the broadest but they are reflexed and the outer whorl (sepals) is incurved!

So that means my plants are A. listera.

[/quote]

Trond, you are correct, I was rushing this morning and my dyslexic tendency set in, and I reversed the characteristics, it is the outer whorl of tepals that are the narrow ones, sorry about the confusion.  It does indeed look as if you have A. listera.  :-)

Mark McDonough Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5 antennaria at aol.com  

Hoy
Hoy's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-12-15

Mark, you are forgiven! My mistakes are usually far worse than that!

Now that I know I have A. listera I can look for ovalifolium  (and Allium plummerae)  ;-)

Trond Rogaland, Norway - with cool, often rainy summers  (29C max) and mild, often rainy winters (180 cm/year)!

RickR
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-09-21

Super allium specimens, Lori!

Flower scapes of the A. sikkimense I recently posted are 8 inches, and I swear the flowers are more blue (rather than purple) than ever this year.  I wonder if it is because of the cooler summer weather.  While it is usually 80-90+ F at this time of year, high temps have only been in the 70-80F range.

 

This past Saturday we had our August Chapter plant sale.  Betty Ann Addison, owner of Rice Creek Gardens donated a whole flat of really choice plants.  Among them was Allium cyaneum.

         

Rick Rodich    zone 4a.    Annual precipitation ~24 inches near Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

That's quite a bounty of choice plants there Rick, Allium included.  I said it before and I'll say it again, would like to go to one of your Chapter plant sales!

Mark McDonough Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5 antennaria at aol.com  

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

Lots and lots of Alliums coming into bloom, inspiring me to start a salvage operation on my 2-1/2 year neglected garden, amazing how quickly an unweeded garden can be engulfed in weeds, tree seedlings, and vines.

Of particular bounty now, are the A. senescens x nutans hybrids, in innumerable shades from white, pink, rose, lilac, and rose-purple.  Here are a couple:

Large heads of a lovely pure soft pink form.

A view showing two different forms, the main one still in bud is particularly deep color.  The budded globes in the background, are still a week or so away from opening, tight heads of a muted rose-purple color.  

Mark McDonough Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5 antennaria at aol.com  

Hoy
Hoy's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-12-15

[quote=Mark McD]

Lots and lots of Alliums coming into bloom, inspiring me to start a salvage operation on my 2-1/2 year neglected garden, amazing how quickly an unweeded garden can be engulfed in weeds, tree seedlings, and vines.

[/quote]

2 1/2 year is along time, Mark. My garden is a complete jungle in just 1 month when I am away in summer.

Your onions (those you show us at least) are still superb though!

Trond Rogaland, Norway - with cool, often rainy summers  (29C max) and mild, often rainy winters (180 cm/year)!

Hoy
Hoy's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-12-15

[quote=RickR]

Flower scapes of the A. sikkimense I recently posted are 8 inches, and I swear the flowers are more blue (rather than purple) than ever this year.  I wonder if it is because of the cooler summer weather.  While it is usually 80-90+ F at this time of year, high temps have only been in the 70-80F range.

 

This past Saturday we had our August Chapter plant sale.  Betty Ann Addison, owner of Rice Creek Gardens donated a whole flat of really choice plants.  Among them was Allium cyaneum.

 

[/quote]

I would love to participate in one of your plant sales, Rick!

Trond Rogaland, Norway - with cool, often rainy summers  (29C max) and mild, often rainy winters (180 cm/year)!

RickR
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-09-21

All my Allium zebdanense are regrowing!  Is this suppose to happen?  They are two and three years old from seed and some bloomed this year.  They came up about 2 weeks ago .....the ones I have planted in the ground under a tree as well as ones still in pots.  I don't recall this happening before, but then again, my pot ghetto is so large that I could have missed them. surpriseindecision(this "indecision" emoticon needs a lot of work...)

Rick Rodich    zone 4a.    Annual precipitation ~24 inches near Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

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