Allium 2010

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RickR
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-09-21

Thanks, Mark.  I remember now, but I had thought those crested capsules were definitive for stellatum only, but I was wrong.

Really like your selections, especially Asteroid.

More Allium stellatum photos, the second one taken on a dark and gloomy day.   I wondered if the crested capsules were crested enough, but when I looked on your web site, I satisfied myself.  If I am wrong, of course let me know.

Rick Rodich    zone 4a.    Annual precipitation ~24 inches
near Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

Boland
Boland's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-09-25

Mark, how does one distinguish stellatum from senescens?  I have what I thought were senescens in bloom at the moment but they look a lot like stellatum you are posting.

Todd Boland
St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
Zone 5b
1800 mm precipitation per year

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

Todd wrote:

Mark, how does one distinguish stellatum from senescens?  I have what I thought were senescens in bloom at the moment but they look a lot like stellatum you are posting.

Wow!  Todd, you pose a legitimate question, but your Allium photo has me puzzled.  I could answer this questions readily if the photo you posted was an obvious A. senescens, but it is not!  So, there are two questions... 1) how to tell stellatum from senescens (this is the easier question)... 2) what the heck is your allium?

First of all, let me say, with your flexing your photographic muscle with your new camera, it is paying off, your photos are quite excellent, and this one is no exception... love the completely black background and clarity of detail... superb photo.

1.  Distinguishing Allium senescens from stellatum:  senescens is a rhizomatous species, with basal bulbs attached to strong well-developed horizontal rhizomes close to the surface, much like an Iris... a spreading very leafy plant, whereas stellatum is usually a solitary bulb, these are sometimes attached to other bulbs by very short temporary vestigial rhizomes, but essentially this is a bulbous species with ovoid bulbs... an upright plant rather sparse of foliage.  Allium senescens has hemispherical umbels, usually quite dense, the hemisphere oriented normal to the ground, with campanulate to narrowly-campanulate florets, to almost pinched cup-shaped florets, whereas A. stellatum has a more effuse head of florets, semi-nodding in bud but can become pseudo-erect in flower (typically hemispherical opening sideways, but can develop almost spherical heads), the tepals strongly dimorphic with inner tepals strongly erect (at some portion of anthesis) and the outer tepals spreading wide open... the inner tepals can splay outwards once more mature adding to the starry effect.  Allium senescens foliage is completely different, a strong leafy plant, with linear but broad-ish strap shaped leaves, bright glossy green in ssp. montanum, and very gray in true type senescens and senescens var. glaucum, whereas the leaves of A. stellatum are few and depauperate, narrow matte-green basal leaves of hardly any impact.  Many other differences too.  Also, seed capsules on senescens are smooth, they are strongly horned in A. stellatum, per the photos shown by me and Rick.

2.  Your plant is a total puzzle.  Need to see more of the plant, the leaves, stems, the roots and bulbs if possible, and it's general disposition.  Do you know where it is from, or under what name it came?  The totally spherical flower head, and very open flowers (not campanulate) tells me we are definitely dealing with something other than Allium senescens, thus the conundrum answering your question.

So, the question is, what Allium are you growing.  As much information and photos you can post here, of the various plant characteristics, will help ascertain an ID diagnosis.  Also, if you know the provenance of the plant, that certainly cuts down a huge amount of possibilities.

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

RickR wrote:

Thanks, Mark.  I remember now, but I had thought those crested capsules were definitive for stellatum only, but I was wrong.

Really like your selections, especially Asteroid.

More Allium stellatum photos, the second one taken on a dark and gloomy day.   I wondered if the crested capsules were crested enough, but when I looked on your web site, I satisfied myself.  If I am wrong, of course let me know.

Rick, nice stellatum selections, they look much like my taller light pink forms.  There are also some very deep pink forms, and some rather dwarf forms... that's what I like about these, they're so variable.

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

RickR
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-09-21

I love a mystery...

The really nice thing, technically speaking, about solid backgrounds is that it allows greater compression of the image file, while still keeping the detail of the subject.  Similarly, a blurred background will allow more preservation of detail of the subject than a photo with an in focus background.

Rick Rodich    zone 4a.    Annual precipitation ~24 inches
near Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

Boland
Boland's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-09-25

OK, it seems most of my senescens are the real thing...they have the rhizomatous habit you describe.  Also, most have finished blooming (actually have shed their seeds) except Blue Eddie which is just starting (why is this one do darn late?).  I will have to go back and look for my sources for the current blooming onion.  I will also have a look at the bulb scenario.  I will endeavor to get a whole plant shot if the wind ever dies down!  I know this one did not come from NARGS (a convenient scapegoat for mislabeled seed).

Todd Boland
St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
Zone 5b
1800 mm precipitation per year

Boland
Boland's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-09-25

Well I could not discover the source of my recent allium but here is the plant...it has the habit of a senescens.

Todd Boland
St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
Zone 5b
1800 mm precipitation per year

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

In bloom today, a recently received replacement to an Allium I once grew but lost, Allium thunbergii DJH 272 (Dan Hinkley).  It is 6-8" (15-20 cm) in bloom.

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

At least 1 month early this year, is an allium received as A. taquetii that I received from the US National Arboretum many years ago; the name taquetii is a synonym for A. thunbergii.  Certainly the flowers are just like A. thunbergii, deep rose-purple with long exserted stamens, and flowering very late in the season.  However, instead of having the usual fistulose (hollow) keeled leaves, here the leaves are absolutely flat and not hollow. Usually this one blooms extremely late, the end of October into December, but this year it is flowering much earlier, even before A. thunbergii 'Ozawa'!

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

harold peachey
harold peachey's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2010-03-22

Allium thunbergii white form blooming now

Harold Peachey
USDA Z5, Onondaga, NY US

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